news Hosting platform Epik can’t pay any of its users right now

[DomainsGENERAL.com]

If we aren't providing value, then why did Rob and Epik target domain investors? @amplify

If these customers weren't generating any profit, or worse, were creating losses at the end of the day, yes, why chase them in the first place? Good question, indeed. Sadly, one explanation working pretty well now is: Because you're running a kind of Ponzi scheme and you're after churn and volume.

 

[amplify]

If we aren't providing value, then why did Rob and Epik target domain investors? @amplify

The only good thing that Epik had going for them (when it was Epik, et al.) was you selling your name on their platform for them to benefit from the 9% in sales commissions and from whatever else they could cross-sale/up-sale to the new customer.

I answered that in the following paragraph.

You were there merely for them to collect 9% commissions on sales and for them to upsell/cross-sell new customers as you are not open to using their hosting, their X, their Y, only their registrar.

If Epik is a completely new company, disconnected from Heavenly Ventures(?) that provides those services, it would only suggest to me that the only value that you would still provide to Epik is if they could do the same thing. However, since from my knowledge, they don't provide hosting, etc. after the split, it would be unwise to cross-sell people from Epik to an affiliate because then you have 2 companies involved with the contract of 1 person. What's to say the other company doesn't say, "You know what? I don't need Epik. Let me sell my Epik registrar self-hosted customers on GoDaddy and collect affiliate commissions on them for more profit this quarter."

Epik would have to create their own hosting platform again, or offer other services, for domainers at cost (and with names that sell) to mean anything much.

Tell me how you would see anything different. How does Epik make money on you as a domainer at cost? You are the customer, still, somehow, or it wouldn't make logical sense for them to provide at cost domain registrations whatsoever besides name recognition to other domainers, that also pay at cost... so where's the money for at cost registrations if my theory about them collecting 9% and selling hosting to the new buyers wrong? You're getting advertised to somehow (most likely for [old] Epik services, which if you're a domainer only, you most likely would never use) or you are serving as a jumping point for a new customer that wants to build your domain into a business that they can help with.

Because you're running a kind of Ponzi scheme and you're after churn and volume.

This has got to be the most unintelligent thing I've ever read about this situation.

Do you even know what a Ponzi scheme is?

Please tell me a scenario in how Epik could ever act as a Ponzi scheme. The only way that they could do that is to pay customer A renewals with customer B's money, but since registrations are yearly, the Ponzi would fall apart very quickly, unlike Madoff, because B's still need to be paid at one point or somebody loses their domain. And, it would be very obvious they were acting in this way because whois is public information.

The only way they would get away with it for longer would be making 10-year renewals apply 5 years only... but wouldn't you question your actual expiration date after a 10-year purchase? That would also only help renewals of 5 other names they would need too.

You didn't put much forethought into that statement, did you?

 

[accurate]

This is true of all domain registrars.

Domain investors provide a large DUM numbers. I assume Epik was making decent money on commissions and brokerage. As well everyone used to use NameLiquidate.

Epik is a scam. Arguing over the correct use of "ponze scheme" is ridiculous.

You know what @DomainsGENERAL.com meant @amplify.

 

[DomainsGENERAL.com]

You know what @DomainsGENERAL.com meant @amplify.

Yes, let's hope he's only ACTING "unintelligent", here.

On one hand, he's basing everything on domain sales, but only on the 9% commission. It's not like if sellers had been "paid" with Masterbucks and then were unable to withdraw their funds. I mean, I could understand the pushback if that was only a wild theory, but it provably happened.

What went down at the domain sales/escrow/masterbucks level is pretty much the definition of a Ponzi Scheme.

It's not like if Epik also proposed "lifetime" registrations. What will happen to these people, btw? Will Epik LLC honor the "lifetime" renewals? Or were these engagements conveniently left at the "old Epik" and won't be honored anymore?

 

[amplify]

You know what @DomainsGENERAL.com meant @amplify.

No, I actually don't know what he means by this except the literal definitions of the phrases he used. If he walked into a debate and said this,

Because you're running a kind of Ponzi scheme and you're after churn and volume.

My rebuttal would be the same.

His rebuttal would be, "Come on, you know what I meant."

However, in a debate, I don't know what you meant except what you actually said.

Are you going to walk that back now and reword it? Anyone for or against Epik's success, and able to look at things objectively, can see that it's neither (a) a Ponzi scheme (or "like") or (b) a cash grab, unless cash grab refers to profits, which all companies (public and private) do on a daily basis.

What else am I supposed to infer from his statement except his actual literal words used?

You're lucky they don't serve you for libel and force you to walk it back in a written formal apology, or they take it to trial. You stated two things that people would take at face value, on a public forum, with the sole intention of damaging a company's reputation, a company you know nothing about (Epik LLC) and can only insinuate actions they will take moving forward.

It was unintelligent to be politically correct, but I'm not that: It was plain retarded to put those adjective clauses in one sentence in reference to Epik.

It's not like if Epik also proposed "lifetime" registrations. What will happen to these people, btw? Will Epik LLC honor the "lifetime" renewals? Or were these engagements conveniently left at the "old Epik" and won't be honored anymore?

They should. Do you know how accounting works and how to manage books? They took on their accounts and debt in the deal, or should have. And, lifetime registration is moot in the whole scheme of things if money is managed correctly.

Let me give you a quick rundown on how lifetime registration could bolster a company, allowing them to get more in financing, and not putting that money at risk.

What was it, $500 or $1000 for forever registration? Either way, it wasn't popular with domainers, we know that much. How many do you think have forever registration? I think @accurate mentioned that he had one, so if anything, he should be asking the question, and not here, to customer service before posting any nonsense.

Anyway, let me assume it's $500 for lifetime registration. You could take $90 and apply it for 10-years and still have $410 left over. Do you know how much $410 earns per month in a passive fund? Upwards of $41 per year. So, it's accruing $41 (growing both in principal as the markets rise as well as dividends as the percentage stays constant) in interest per year over the 10-year period. By the time they need to renew it again for 10 more years, there is already $410 in an account plus, let's say, around $500 extra in dividends. Now, let's just assume over the 10-year period, domain registrations increased 3% year over year... at cost registration would be $12 and they would then need to take away $120 from the principal and interest that grew to $910, leaving $790 to remain and begin collecting monthly dividends of approximately $79.

Now one lifetime registration at the 10-year mark is making the company $79 per month after renewing for an additional 10 years. There's absolutely no way that it can't be paid for.

I get it. You don't like Epik.

But that statement is, yikes. And to walk it back like "you know what I meant" is weak. You would be crushed on a debate stage and be made a fool of, in anything, if that's how you come prepared to any argument.

What went down at the domain sales/escrow/masterbucks level is pretty much the definition of a Ponzi Scheme.

Again, how? They are making payments. There were cash flow issues and they are all being addressed. I've already made a public statement on this in bold a page back and don't want to repeat myself. It was not operated at a Ponzi or "like" Ponzi. There's a difference between allocating money poorly and operating a Ponzi. You know the difference, you just want to muddy the water and put Epik + Ponzi + cash grab into a statement to make people question Epik, for whatever reason, I don't know, nor do I care. You aren't a customer there, so I don't even know why you're wasting energy attacking them. Just do a silent boycott and not use their products, much like people not buying Bud Light--I don't see people posting "I didn't buy Bud Light" today, they just aren't purchasing it and letting it be to die on its own. You just want to beat a dead horse (but I think it's far from dead, so I'm remaining... I have hope they will make it by the 22nd).

It's not like if Epik also proposed "lifetime" registrations. What will happen to these people, btw? Will Epik LLC honor the "lifetime" renewals? Or were these engagements conveniently left at the "old Epik" and won't be honored anymore?

Good question.

Instead of asking on a public forum, why don't you email customer support and then ask them? Your bias is showing by doing it this way... you are tainting their image more by proposing the question to people that don't know. I challenge you to email customer support, get the answer, and post it here. That is the way it should have been done, not in the manner that you did it. And, it's exactly how I addressed the $91,000 situation: I straight up asked them if she'd get a payout and it happened days later. Before bashing them publicly about not paying, I asked them if they anticipate on doing so, and I got a response... which I shared.

 

[amplify]

I'm done with this thread because it's the same thing over and over. It's like "orange man bad" but "Epik bad" without any substantial proof or evidence, only anecdotes or conspiracies.

The only thing I need to know from Epik is whether my affiliate link is still operational, and encourage others to use it to support a great American company.

Nobody throws $5,000,000 down on a dying business unless there's more to be had from it. That should be the biggest takeaway here. The "angel investor" that paid that much didn't do so lightly, I can tell you that from managing way less money than that, but money nonetheless. You want to grow your money, even if that isn't a significant amount of money to you, you still want it to grow, even though there's a safety net to write it off; your goal isn't to write it off though. I'm sure a lot of thought and sifting of records went into someone deciding to throw that down. That's something you should think about, if anything.

 

[accurate]

With a Ponzi Scheme people are paid.

Currently they aren't paying anyone.

Kathleen got paid for Candida but I'm not aware of anyone else.

What went down at the domain sales/escrow/masterbucks level is pretty much the definition of a Ponzi Scheme.

 

[amplify]

With a Ponzi Scheme people are paid.

Currently they aren't paying anyone.

Kathleen got paid for Candida but I'm not aware of anyone else.

Revert back to my post in bold and ask whether those people have hired legal counsel or not. If not, then we can continue the discussion. However, if they have, take note of what I said in bold.

FWIW: People are paid in a Ponzi up until the point it collapses (or is investigated/shut down), then nobody is paid.

 

[accurate]

See deletes and transfer out numbers here.

Registrar Stats: EPIK Registrar Overview - DomainState.com

EPIK Registrar Overview Epik Inc. , IANA#: 617. https://www.epik.com

www.domainstate.com

I imagine it's only gotten worse.

 

[DomainsGENERAL.com]

Anyone for or against Epik's success, and able to look at things objectively, can see that it's neither (a) a Ponzi scheme (or "like") or (b) a cash grab, unless cash grab refers to profits, which all companies (public and private) do on a daily basis.

Man, you are posting quite some nonsense :/

On the other hand, you wrote yourself you didn't follow the story. So, you're just commenting on something you have no knowledge of, or very little.

They didn't pay people for months and months. They (Bryan did, mostly) told a lot of things which turned out to be complete BS. I mean, the masterbucks fiasco started with the site being taken down for a supposed "maintenance". Saying things like "but, but, but, you just have to ask them!" is silly. A RICO case has been filled against them, which is when they only really started to go in the right direction to pay people they were owing money to. (Did you read the case?)

It seems they just didn't have the money to pay people who used their ESCROW service. They now got it by selling their most valuable assets. How is it exactly they didn't have funds to pay fairly recent ESCROW transactions? Because they used them for something else, it appears. Whatever YOU want to spin this as. But try to explain it, if you want. Just dig deeper, go ahead.

This is only my understanding of what happened, at "Old Epik", which isn't the company which now took over the Epik business. Maybe I'm just a moron who doesn't understand anything. And/or is totally biased, like you want to picture me. Or maybe I actually followed the story, unlike you.

Do you know how accounting works and how to manage books? They took on their accounts and debt in the deal, or should have.

I'm fairly confident I know better than you how financial matters work, yes.
The deal specifically excluded debts. The company didn't change hand. Only the assets did.
Did you actually look at any of it? Did you read the APA?

So, you argue you can get a 10% risk-free return? Right.
You also have to remember interest rates are quite higher right now, but have been extremely low for an extended period of time when they did this. So, all your argument is how rich Epik must have been, yet, the mess they got into did happen...

leaving $790 to remain and begin collecting monthly dividends of approximately $79.

Oh, maybe even a 10% return per month I assume this is an honest mistake.

But that statement is, yikes. And to walk it back like "you know what I meant" is weak. You would be crushed on a debate stage and be made a fool of, in anything, if that's how you come prepared to any argument.

I would be "crushed in a debate"? Not against you, then. Or you're a pretty funny guy.

I didn't say what you're attributing to me. I didn't walk anything back. You are the one arguing on matters you didn't follow. Just try to imagine how silly that is. Of course anyone who actually had an interest in what happened knew what I meant, reason why @accurate legitimately answered that.

I get it. You don't like Epik.

You aren't a customer there

And, like all the rest, you "know" that how, exactly?
You keep on making statements on things you have no knowledge of. What you should actually know is that you don't know. But this just seems above your paygrade. What is even worse is that you should know it is the opposite of what you say, according to my participation on this very forum, when YOU were managing it!

you are tainting their image more by proposing the question to people that don't know.

A fair QUESTION seen the situation is tainting someone's image? Only the answer has the possibility of doing that.
So, people don't supposedly know, but you believe someone in this very thread actually has a lifetime registration?
Logic isn't your strong suit.

whether my affiliate link is still operational,

As far as I know, their affiliate program isn't working anymore since a while (and yes, I was even using it!)
If you go into the adequate section in your account, it still shows for now "Epik’s Affiliate Program is being redeveloped. Please check back soon". I would assume it isn't operational right now and hasn't been since a while.

One question I asked myself: Do you have anything to do with the AMPLIFY crypto exchange Epik did purchase?
Or is your nickname and the name of that exchange just a coincidence?

 

[DomainsGENERAL.com]

FWIW: People are paid in a Ponzi up until the point it collapses (or is investigated/shut down), then nobody is paid.

After the collapse, assets are sold, if there are any, to try to pay people out.

 

[DomainsGENERAL.com]

If that was the only flaw you found in my argument for how Forever could support 10-year registrations and also be used to grow the company, then it shows how weak the position against Forever domains is

Sorry, but you're babbling a lot while deflecting from the fact Epik did indeed find itself in a position where it seemed unable to pay the people it should in no way have had any trouble to pay. That's the facts, the subject, and the reason why I mentioned the idea of "kind of a Ponzi" above. Even if it has been "unintentional", it is quite what happened. Arguing a lot on details doesn't change the core of the matter.

The way Epik did setup Masterbucks, operated their escrow service and offered lifetime registrations doesn't look good now in hindsight, according to the end results (before the sale).

It seems customers have now been paid, which is good, but apparently with Rob Monster losing his company. Not good for him, and not good for all the drama which took place. This drama problem has been something a bit recurring with Epik. Maybe not always all their fault, admittedly. At one point, people have enough. I know I do.

Nothing is risk-free. You registering a .com and believing you will own it forever isn't even risk-free.

You might not fully realize what you say yourself.
There are different level of risks, things supposed to be "risk-free", even if it can be argued it's somehow theoretical, and people accepting to take the risks.

Taking risks "on others" without fully disclosing them, is not good. And usually not legal, btw.
This whole "lifetime registrations" isn't good.
The whole reasoning you are developing here is probably the kind which lead Epik where it went.

"It's risky, but either it works and we make money, or it will be on the naive customers because they won't have their domains renewed 'forever', like they paid for. Silly of them to have believed us. Hey, it's on them!" => NO, that's not the way to do things.

You could argue it's the way the insurance business works for example. But all this has to be done seriously, with planning, reserves, usually guarantees which come with regulations, etc. We did see how Epik handled financial matters. This is exactly what it is about, here.

I believe that your intention behind the question was made to defame, nothing more, as you know it was rhetorical, or more that it would fall into the void.

Yeah, I understood your "beliefs" and way of "thinking" since a while.
Nothing rhetorical about the question. It is a real question. I am wondering, but not enough to go ask the support as I'm not concerned myself. Maybe the answer is yes, these forever registrations will be honored, IDK. The question does exist, tho.

"But you should not say anything because of my little feelings and my agenda". => NO.

This is because from his perspective, people, like yourself, apparently (apparent to me now at least as that thought crossed your mind without seeing previous posts of mine dating back to 2009 with quote-replies from others using this name), would conflate my username with the crypto company on a domain name forum, which is two completely different niches.

So, I guess all this is a "No, just a coicidence and no relationship whatsoever". OK.

Epik did buy this company. The fact you used this nickname far before doesn't mean much. You could have used the same name you loved for a new project later. Now, it appeared even worse as Epik missing funds could have been used, at least part of them, for all the acquisition spree Epik went into. And as you're "defending" Epik any way possible, even ways not making much sense, yes, a parallel could be made where you actually benefitted yourself from this (bad) way of doing things. Customers funds could have gone to you to purchase the crypto exchange you created. Anyway, thanks for the answer, I note it is just a coincidence and there is nothing there.

As for the lifetime registrations, it was only a question, because yes, it did cross my mind. As it probably does cross other people's mind, you know, all those who say nothing. Now it is clear for Amplify exchange (where it seems some people have been screwed of their funds too. I don't know if this has been resolved or not)

 

[DomainsGENERAL.com]

You would be crushed on a debate stage and be made a fool of, in anything, if that's how you come prepared to any argument.

Well, it took you long to chicken out and even delete your long post I answered to just above, after all your assertions on "being crushed" in a debate, the "unintelligent" things to say or not, and so on. Maybe I should respect the fact you realized how ""unintelligent" and wrong what you were saying in it was, IDK :/

 

[amplify]

Well, it took you long to chicken out and even delete your long post I answered to just above, after all your assertions on "being crushed" in a debate, the "unintelligent" things to say or not, and so on. Maybe I should respect the fact you realized how ""unintelligent" and wrong what you were saying in it was, IDK :/

Think what you may.

The edit button wasn't available and the story I told, in part, was unprofessional of me to put forward publicly.

This will be my last post here as it seems everyone is paid out and there's nothing else fishy going on.

Keep wasting your time piling on and making accusations about Epik and myself.

 

[amplify]

It's not like if Epik also proposed "lifetime" registrations. What will happen to these people, btw? Will Epik LLC honor the "lifetime" renewals? Or were these engagements conveniently left at the "old Epik" and won't be honored anymore?

Since nobody bothered to ask the source on whether domains were forever, Epik LLC will honor lifetime / Forever registration... straight from Epik.



That's how easy that was. You can lay that to rest now since I did the work for you.

The part about numbers was me inquiring on how many they had, and since that would reveal a portion of their revenue and how lucrative it might have been, they won't disclose the number of Forver domains under management.

Though by the sound of it, it looks like if you transfer your Forever domain away, you only get the 10-year initial renewal (if that's what they applied at first).

 

[DomainsGENERAL.com]

That's how easy that was.

To blindly believe what a support service just asserts. Yes, it is "easy", indeed. Very easy.
I would take this with a pinch of salt and look at what happens over time to people holding them.
But it's good they seem to be willing to honor this engagement of "Old Epik". For now, at least.

They don't seem to propose this possibility anymore, if I'm not mistaken. I didn't find any mention of such 'forever" registrations on their website. Seems they didn't understand what a golden goose it is. Maybe you should explain it to them, @amplify

reveal a portion of their revenue and how lucrative it might have been

And how much money just went AWOL at Old Epik!?

 

[accurate]

ICANN is reviewing the documents and data received.
1 June 2023: ICANN Sends Notice of Breach to Registrar (Epik Inc. (IANA #617))
Data and Documents Under Review by ICANN

Notices of Breach, Suspension, Termination and Non-Renewal - ICANN

www.icann.org

 

[accurate]

Epik's New Chapter: Transition and Reinovation​

Epik LLC was established in June 2023 to acquire Epik.com from Epik Holdings Inc and its majority shareholder, Rob Monster. To ensure a smooth transition, Brian and Rob have entered into a 90-day consulting agreement with the new independent owners.

The new management has decided to retain the majority of the 30-strong old Epik support and technical team and further bolster it by allocating an additional 50 members of our own staff. This decision is aimed at transforming Epik into the premier domain management and business management platform.

In light of market consolidations, Epik is taking a stand by re-committing to our 9% aftermarket sales fee, a move that stands against the industry trend of 15-25% fee structure. The objective is to provide a cost-effective platform for domainers to earn a living. We also pledge to stand against the common practice of obscuring buyer contact details from domain sellers.

Throughout the summer of 2023, we aim to improve the Epik platform to facilitate domain sales better. This includes reintroducing full domainer functionality by the end of June, allowing domainers to make more data-driven decisions. To maintain transparency and legality, all financial transactions will be managed by an independent third-party lawyer domain escrow service, and Epik LLC will not partake in any financial transactions.

As the industry consolidates, Epik will stand tall as an independent platform to help domainers earn a living.

Thank you,
Epik LLC
30 N Gould St, Ste E
Sheridan WY 82801
[email protected]
+1 (737) 301-5923

 

[Johnn]

We don't know what the future will be so I don't think we want to support them despite what they did to the Domain Community.
Beside there are many other registrars out there that we can use so why take a chance on our investment.

Just my opinion.
When it comes to business/investment, I am not falling in love with any company or individual. It's your money so you need to make a business decision that makes sense to you.

 

[accurate]

Definitely not.

We don't know what the future will be so I don't think we want to support them despite what they did to the Domain Community.

I'm transferring out.

Beside there are many other registrars out there that we can use so why take a chance on our investment.

Doesn't make any sense to do business with Epik.

Just my opinion.
When it comes to business/investment, I am not falling in love with any company or individual. It's your money so you need to make a business decision that makes sense to you.