How bad, really, is Click Fraud?

[seeker]

people...
(and friends)
I believe that mole was trying to make a point rather than figure out a way to defruad our income system (PPC)than anything else.
At least that is what I would like to believe.
I seriously do not think that mole was trying to actually beat the system, but rather show its vulrnabilities.
I guess it is for Mole to answer, but that is what I 'got' from his post(s).

 

[RTM.net]

I agree with seeker - I think that Mole was simply raising the issue; not supporting the criminals.

Keep in mind, that click fraud is just that: fraud. It's criminal, and you can be sure that the major players (Y, G, M, etc.) are all involving their legal teams as well as LE agencies in the loop.

Who's to say that some of the fraudulent surfing companies aren't, in reality, trojan enterprises set up as traps by law enforcement, the companies involved... or both.

It's easy.. I run Adsense. I am worried about click fraud, so one of my methods is to entice and trap my potential "bad apple" publishers.

I setup up "click fraud service provider" sites, obviously with limited traceability back to me at Adsense.... I then see if any new clients of my CFSP sites match publishers in my Adsense program....

Upon matching, I monitor carefully, and then take appropriate action (termination, lawsuit, who knows.)

It's like any other criminal activity, you never really know who you are dealing with.

Just my $0.02.

Rob

 

[mole]

Your first post may have been sarcsatic, but it smells legitimate, and says a lot about your character.
More and more, I'm disgusted by your posts, mole.
I speak for the many, many people I know here that don't speak up.
Your like the grumpy dwarf, or better yet, the grinch that stole Christmas.
Like I said, if this were my board...

This issue affects the very survival of many businesses and how advertisers view domain traffic conversion. Should we just bury our heads in the sand and not even discusss about it here? Whether anyone has anything to hide or protect, is not the issue here.

The solution is to square up to the problems plaguing the industry and then suggest solutions for it. And to see how we as domainers can help solve the problem, rather than adding to it.

It is no secret how click fraud is committed, any 9 year old can search Google for this, let alone seasoned domainers. So, boo hoo!

If you are disgusted by the truth, speak up by all means. This thread is purely impersonal conjecture and deliberately edgy to stimulate thought and discussion. If you are honest and above board, you have nothing to worry about, and may learn something.

If you chose to speak for the "others", then please make their points rationale and logical, emotional rhetoric is non-productive.

 

[seeker]

mole....
come on.
a few of us 'know' you. Your posts can be easily misenterpreted.
tempo change?

 

[Domagon]

Two quick points:

1. The various PPC manipulation methods discussed in this thread are widely known, as well widely as in use.

2. Manipulating PPC may *not* be illegal in many instances depending on method(s) used and related issues, such as jurisdiction.

Ron

 

[seeker]

Two quick points:

1. The various PPC manipulation methods discussed in this thread are widely known, as well widely as in use.

2. Manipulating PPC may *not* be illegal in many instances depending on method(s) used and related issues, such as jurisdiction.

Ron

Thanki for the info Ron!
That was NOT the question that started this thread...

 

[deepstar]

This issue affects the very survival of many businesses and how advertisers view domain traffic conversion. Should we just bury our heads in the sand and not even discusss about it here? Whether anyone has anything to hide or protect, is not the issue here.

The solution is to square up to the problems plaguing the industry and then suggest solutions for it. And to see how we as domainers can help solve the problem, rather than adding to it.

It is no secret how click fraud is committed, any 9 year old can search Google for this, let alone seasoned domainers. So, boo hoo!

If you are disgusted by the truth, speak up by all means. This thread is purely impersonal conjecture and deliberately edgy to stimulate thought and discussion. If you are honest and above board, you have nothing to worry about, and may learn something.

If you chose to speak for the "others", then please make their points rationale and logical, emotional rhetoric is non-productive.

>> This issue affects the very survival of many businesses and how advertisers view domain traffic conversion. Should we just bury our heads in the sand and not even discusss about it here? Whether anyone has anything to hide or protect, is not the issue here.

I believe there is a way to help solve this type of fraud and that is to contact the companies directly effected. In my opinion it is like spam, we can discuss the different methods of how to send out spam and how to make money from it but this doesn't help. When you receive spam contact the FTC, this is how to help solve these issues. I understand your point and I don't believe click fraud is something you are involved or would ever consider but I do think there is a better way to attack the issue than in a domain name forum.

>> It is no secret how click fraud is committed, any 9 year old can search Google for this, let alone seasoned domainers. So, boo hoo!

If it's so easy and a 9 year old can do it then why do we need to discuss such elementary tactics?

 

[mole]

>>I understand your point and I don't believe click fraud is something you are involved or would ever consider but I do think there is a better way to attack the issue than in a domain name forum.

Domains are intricately tied to PPC systems - and the continued viability of this system, modified or otherwise, is key to domaining successs.

>>If it's so easy and a 9 year old can do it then why do we need to discuss such elementary tactics?[/QUOTE]

The candy is the same but valuable perspectives can defer depending on which side of the fence you are sitting on i.e. provider of PPC, user of PCC, facilitator of PPC.

 

[seeker]

Mole...
are you suggesting that PPC fraud is 'ok'???????????

 

[mole]

Mole...
are you suggesting that PPC fraud is 'ok'???????????

Where did that come from??

PPC fraud is destroying the very fabric of continued advertiser credibility into the future. New business models will develop that will address this eg. CPA (cost-per-action) or FCA (fixed-cost-advertising) or PSA (profit-sharing-advertising). Only that the formulaes for doing this is pretty complex. But it is happening, and will happen more into the future.

Someone once said innocently on a forum "What is click fraud?" You'ld be surprised how many people continue to be ignorant of it. Those who continue to exploit it face the slammer, it will be caught out, sooner or later. Google's IPO has brought the problem out into corporate consciousness.

In click fraud, ignorance is not bliss. Neither is this thread :-D

 

[Mr. Deleted]

Where did that come from??

PPC fraud is destroying the very fabric of continued advertiser credibility into the future. New business models will develop that will address this eg. CPA (cost-per-action) or FCA (fixed-cost-advertising) or PSA (profit-sharing-advertising). Only that the formulaes for doing this is pretty complex. But it is happening, and will happen more into the future.

Someone once said innocently on a forum "What is click fraud?" You'ld be surprised how many people continue to be ignorant of it. Those who continue to exploit it face the slammer, it will be caught out, sooner or later. Google's IPO has brought the problem out into corporate consciousness.

In click fraud, ignorance is not bliss. Neither is this thread :-D

I agree with you, and it seems like you are being the "unpopular one" for mentiontioning it here. Hound and Seeker are trying to make it sound like you are a fraud for asking a hard question.

I would like to see everyone come together contructively, and find a sulution to this major problem. I think that is what you wanted when you posted this thread.

When I was new, I didn't know anything about click fraud, and when I put my code in my first page, I clicked it to test the clicks, and didn't realise what I was doing, but when I was suspended, I emailed them, and explained the reason for the clicks, and they restored me. I now don't click on my own ads. If I want to know who that advertiser is, I right click on the link and click properties so that I can see the advertiser's url, and then I type in in my browser.

But there are those that pay others to click, or make a bot to do it for them... And that is where the industries, both the PPC industry, and domain industry need to work on to stop these frauds.

http://walkerwebsites.com/traffic-exchanges.asp that is the software that is making Swap Clicks posiable. We could start by getting these sites shut down.

 

[seeker]

If you re read this thread mail3k, and please re read it carefully, you will see that I was actually trying to defuse the situation and I actually tried to protect Mole because I was sure he was NOT suggesting anything illegal, but he was just questioning the subject.
PLEASE, reread my posts.
the last one before this was a question aimed at Mole to make sure no misinterpretations were made, and to allow Mole to reply , which he did.
To me, it seems you (mail3K) are accusing people on unfounded grounds.
This was a case of simple misunderstanding and misenterpretaion, and I would like to believe I actually helped to clarify the matter.
I wopnt bother to quote what I said, a simple rereading of it all should be enough.

 

[mole]

Thank you, Mail and Seek.

 

[Restecpa]

PPC is the golden goose for the domain business. Anyone who does not understand this issue on moral and ethical grounds should at least think about what they are doing when they practice (or even consider) click fraud. You are damaging the golden goose. I hope that Google, Yahoo, etc do as much as they can to find and eliminate click fraud as they can.

I agree! I hate those who are faking clicks just so they can make a few extra bucks. It's seriously hurting the rest of us, honest publishers.

Furthermore, have you noticed that the three named sites are all running Google adsense themself too? WTF? It's like laughing right at Googles face.. I wonder why their accounts don't get suspended and urls banned :worried:

 

[Mr. Deleted]

Thanks for clarifying yourself Seeker. I guess it came across wrong.

 

[RTM.net]

All in all - this is an excellent thread. It's refreshing to see an overall whitehat response to this issue. Sure, we're all here to "make a buck" - but as it has been stated: don't strangle the Golden Goose... no one wins in the long run ; not even in the short run!

Rob

 

[Restecpa]

Glad to see Google ban their adsense account just hours after...

 

[seeker]

who's account?

 

[Restecpa]

who's account?

Swapclicks were serving adsense ads until recently. Doesn't get more foolish than that if you ask me..

 

[Mr. Deleted]

News
Our members visit other members' websites and see what they have to offer and then check out their competitor’s ads that are listed on their site to check out the member’s competition.

LOL they have a lot of nerve!

You must be honest to use the system. You agree to not hold SwapClicks.net or it's operators or members liable for anything whatsoever resulting from your membership.

lol I see no honesty in that program