How to handle DNF member non-payment?

[JuniperPark]

I've been extremely pleased with almost all buying/sellling transactions with many members here. Many transactions have been entirely completed, including payment and push in less than 10 minutes!

Unfortunately, there has been an exception:

1) A "senior member" advertised in the WANTED section

2) I replied with a list of names meeting his criteria

3) He PM'ed me an offer. I immediately replied to the PM accepting, giving my PayPal address.

4) Days pass, no payment. I forgot about it. A couple of weeks pass.

5) Same "senior member" advertises again in the WANTED section, same criteria. I PM him the same list, and he replies "didn't we already discuss xxxxxxxxx.com?" I immediately reply that we did, I accepted his offer, and was still waiting for payment.

6) My PM was read by him almost immediately (according to message tracking), but he did not reply, and did not make payment. A week has now passed, no further contact. This member is here frequently.

This is not a great deal of money, but it's clear this person should not be trusted and I wouldn't want to be on the hook for a larger amount of money in the future.

SO... do I:

1) Just "forget" about this, and keep this member's identity secret and allow him make this a less than trustworthy forum to buy/sell domain names,

OR

2) "Out" this person publicly, and warn others against doing business with him?


EDIT: OOps, this is in wrong forum. Mods, please move as appropriate. Thanks!

 

[HeavyLifting]

I assume you are talking about me?

 

[strongvis]

Other than it being rude to not explain why payment wasn't sent, I don't see much you could do other than air it out here. If they changed their mind or couldnt scrape up funds or for whatever reason they couldn't pay, it doesnt mean they're out to screw you . You stil have the name right??

 

[Anthony Ng]

Originally posted by strongvis
Other than it being rude to not explain why payment wasn't sent, I don't see much you could do other than air it out here. If they changed their mind or couldnt scrape up funds or for whatever reason they couldn't pay, it doesnt mean they're out to screw you . You stil have the name right??

Actually NO. When an offer is made, either in public (post) or in private (PM), it's a DEAL when the other party accepts. Not honoring one's own offer is NOT ACCEPTABLE and should not be tolerated at all.

Of course, I would recommend trying your best to sort things out in private before going public; but if you think you have already done so to no avail, you may want to report this member to one of our admin/mods. Hope this helps.

 

[HeavyLifting]

since i know he's talking about me (but for some reason is debating "outing" me as opposed to talking to me directly) let me shed a little light.

the original "offer" as it is now being called was a price inquiry. the verbatim text is:

"would you take $50 for xxxxxxxx.com?"

i often try to measure a sellers willingness to sell at a certain level before making a purchase. i have a limited budget and i do my research before spending.

i'm a web designer. sometimes people say to me, "hey could you build me a site for $XXXX." if they don't become my client, i don't drop what i'm doing and run around trying to "out" them and "warn" others.

i'm sorry for any confusion, but come on. isn't this a waste of time and energy?

move on.

 

[JuniperPark]

Strongvis: You're right, I do still have the name, otherwise I would have acted on this right away.

Nameslave: I agree with you 100%. I would feel differently if this were eBay, where shills, scams, and non-payment is almost the norm, but the fact that this has been such a great, trustworthy community.

Andriod: I appreciate that you stepped forward and identified yourself. You're right, this was certainly not the 'deal of the century', but if we can't trust each other on small deals then we definately can't trust each other on big deals.

I already contacted you directly about this, and read the PM, and didn't reply. That's why I 'went public'.

I take your statement "would you take $50 for xxxxxxxx.com?" as a binding offer. Any doubt about that should have been dispelled when I accepted. And yet again when I reminded you that I had accepted.

Had I sold the name to someone else after accepting your offer, you would rightfully been angry at me. I don't think people here are going to appreciate that making and backing out of offers is "just research" on your part. I think you know that too, because you didn't respond to me at all.

 

[Cash Is King]

Originally posted by Android


the original "offer" as it is now being called was a price inquiry. the verbatim text is:

"would you take $50 for xxxxxxxx.com?"

If the seller says yes, a deal is done. Pay the man. d

 

[WebCat]

Originally posted by ClassicNames.com
If the seller says yes, a deal is done. Pay the man. d

I strongly diasagree with this!

So if you go to a used car lot and ask the saleman if he would sell the car for $xxxx.xx, then somehow you are LEGALLY COMMITTED to buy the car? If that were so, every used car dealer in the world woud be foaming at the mouth!

If you are at a swap meet, and you see a chair you like, and ask the seller "Would you sell it for 50.00, and he says yea he would, but you walk away, should he run after you screaming that you cheated him?

I'm sorry, but this is wrong! Asking someone what their bottom line price is IS NOT AN OFFER TO BUY! It's...... asking what their bottom line price is!

It's like you guys have never gone shopping before. You have a RIGHT to ask about price without being contractually committed! There is no law anywhere in the world that would try to hold someone to this.

A sale is when BOTH patries AGREE to make the sale. BOTH parties! I can think of 10,000 times when I asked someone selling an item if they would take this price or trade for that. It's called negotiating. God! Imagine if you were looking at a house, and casually asked the owner if they would sell at some price and they jump and say YES! And poof! You are OBLIGATED to buy the house!

Try the same in reverse. I ask you "Would you BUY this domain for $50.00, and you answer my inquiry and yes I would- does that make you OBLIGATED to BUY IT? This is illogical, and completely contrary to business practices all over the world!

One more time- asking IF a person would sell at a certain price IS NOT and offer to buy. Asking IF a person would BUY at a certain price is not an offer to sell!

Juniper- give the man a break. Maybe he was unclear in his wording. Maybe you misunderstood his message. Maybe he was even rude to not return your message. But he's not cheating you, scamming you, and you have lost nothing. He on the other hand is being publicly accused of..... of..... something. I don't know what.

This reminds me of the Shakespeare play "Much Ado About Nothing".

IMHO,
WebCat

ps- I apologize if my tone is perturbed. I can't believe we are even talking about this. We are supposed to be professionals, and in the real world, price inquiries and even real offers to buy are made and withdrawn thousands of times every day, with no harm to anyone.

 

[Mr Webname]

If you PM someone and ask "Will you accept $xx for such and such a domain" and they say "Yes", then in my view you have agreed a sale. Having agreed that sale, to then ignore PM's about the sale is not what DNF is about IMO - if having received the PM you change your mind I would at least expect you to say "Look I'm sorry, I've made a mistake and I can't use the name, please can we cancel the sale". That's just common courtesy, let alone what we expect from buyers/sellers here.

There are different ways of addressing an enquiry also:-
1) "Will you sell xxxx for $xx" - means I want to buy it can we deal - if I say "Yes" then deal done in my book.
2) "What's your best price for $xxxx" - means this is just an enquiry, leading to a possible sale.

Someone who builds a reputation of ignoring people in transactions is abusing his/her membership of DNF IMO.

For the record I don't think it has anything to do with car sales which generally requires signing of paperwork, agreements etc - domain trading exists to a great extent on "trust" and verbal agreement; it happens here many times each day. We have seen all too well recently what happens when that "trust" breaks down.

 

[HeavyLifting]

as far as 'rules' go, i think anyone who believes i entered into a binding agreement to buy the domain should have their f**king head examined.

regarding protocol: yes, perhaps i was not the best communicator and perhaps i wasted 20-30 seconds of someones time. please accept my most humble apologize. i hope there's some way my reputation can recover from the enormous damage i've done (that's sarcasm for those of you who are seriously demented).

i don't know about the rest of you, but i'm extremely busy and i do have to let certain things slip from time to time. i don't have time to review the 300 PMs in my box and make sure every last loose end is tied up.

so when is a domain truly sold beyond a shadow of a doubt? for the intelligent among us, that moment is when the MONEY IS IN HAND.

what could be considered a formal offer? i'd say it's when you get the clear word 'SOLD' in a thread of PM, or maybe 'Paypal on the way, my Enom is....'

is such an offer 'binding?' i'm not sure what that means in the case of DNF. who's gonna enforce it? some 18 year old 'moderator' who has sold eleven dollars worth of domains his whole life?

this place sucks lately.

Android

 

[Spider]

I agree with android on all points of the last post.

 

[Mr Webname]

Originally posted by Spider
I agree with android on all points of the last post.

No surprises there then!

 

[JuniperPark]

Again - this isn't the 'deal of the century', but it's clear that we don't have a consensus and what constitutes a 'deal'... perhaps this thread should be a MUST READ for DNF Members.

To summarize Andriod's points:
1) No offer he makes is 'binding'. He makes offers 'for research'.
2) No deal is binding until he MAKES PAYMENT. His word that payment is forthcoming is no good, and in fact, "you should have your head examined" if trust is part of your business deals.
3) Because of #2, sellers should NOT take a domain name off the market because of a deal in progress, EVER.
4) Andriod to "too busy" to respond to PM's, and he considers that a valid, legal excuse to back out of an agreement. Nevermind the fact that he has plenty of time to make posts here publicly while ignoring the PMs, an even asks in his posts that MORE people PM him about new deals.
5) Offers he makes here are not binding because no one would enforce them but an '18 year old moderator'.

Think, folks. Is this really how you want business to be done here? This is eBay attitude all the way.

REALITY CHECK: I've been involved in civil actions before, and Andriod would fail in court on each and every point. Agreements made here ARE binding and enforceable, at least among parties in the US. Our exchange met every aspect of a valid contract to buy, in fact Android could also incur additional punitive damages by ignoring communications attempting to resolve the conflict, as well as all legal and court costs.

I'm not sure what your point is about the moderator's age, but if the implication is that he doesn't conduct business in a professional manner and you do, you've definately failed to make that point.

No, I'm not going to push this further, but this discussion of business ethics has been enlightening, to say the last.

 

[HeavyLifting]

Originally posted by JuniperPark
His word that payment is forthcoming is no good, and in fact, "you should have your head examined" if trust is part of your business deals.

please remind me when i told you payment was forthcoming.

Originally posted by JuniperPark
REALITY CHECK: I've been involved in civil actions before, and Andriod would fail in court on each and every point. Agreements made here ARE binding and enforceable, at least among parties in the US. Our exchange met every aspect of a valid contract to buy, in fact Android could also incur additional punitive damages by ignoring communications attempting to resolve the conflict, as well as all legal and court costs.

hilarious. you've lost your mind. $50 domain and you're talking about legal fees and going to court.

hey Mr. Webname, would you accept $1 Million for mrwebname.com?

according to JuniperPark i've just made a legally binding offer over which you can sue my pants off. i've just made you a rich man.

Android

 

[mole]

Business ethic 101 #1 - What goes around, comes around

Business ethic 101 #2 - Judge not least you be judged

:-D

 

[Spider]

He said would you take $50, not I will give you $50. I think that makes a big difference.

 

[Mr Webname]

hey Mr. Webname, would you accept $1 Million for mrwebname.com?

Not for me thanks Android - so far I've tried to deal with you 3 times and been successful only once so I'll pass if you don't mind.

I've also generally found that in business it's a good idea to treat customers and potential customers with respect and consideration.

Business ethic 101 #2 - Judge not least you be judged

DNMole, when a pattern of activity is revealed it is often prudent to make a judgement.

 

[mole]

Originally posted by Mr Webname
DNMole, when a pattern of activity is revealed it is often prudent to make a judgement.

Agreed, web, if this was a fraud case.

 

[HeavyLifting]

Looks like i have a pattern of burning people then. I've finally been outted. Darn.

I'm so over this place.

Good luck bickering about $5 domain deals and getting all excited about 'protocol' , 'ethics' etc. over something completely rediculous. I do treat people with respect... until they decide to make federal case out of something that isn't worth more than a 2 second PM to say "hey what gives."

DNF is a disaster. Have fun spinning your wheels.

 

[Mr Webname]

Originally posted by DNMole


Agreed, web, if this was a fraud case.

I personally don't think it needs to be a fraud case to expect a simple PM saying "I've changed my mind I don't want to sell/buy". One case is understandable, two becomes unfortunate, more than that and in my view someone is saying "Stuff you".