Membership is FREE, giving all registered users unlimited access to every DNForum feature, resource, and tool! Optional membership upgrades unlock exclusive benefits like profile signatures with links, banner placements, appearances in the weekly newsletter, and much more - customized to your membership level!

John Berryhill wins pig.com case today!

Status
Not open for further replies.

namestrands

The Bishop
Legacy Exclusive Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2005
Messages
3,924
Reaction score
6
I have been looking through the Arb Forum and it seems that the majority of cases are won by the complainant even some of the weaker ones.

I am about to go through my first Nominet DRS, and looking at the decision on Bounce.co.uk I have to say it is somewhat daunting. Must of been nerve wrecking for you Adam.
 
Dynadot - Expired Domain Auctions

jaydub

Level 10
Legacy Exclusive Member
Joined
Jul 1, 2004
Messages
5,856
Reaction score
547
Looks like the Year of the PIG is going to lucky for Adam....

Yes it is the Year of the Pig coming up...
 

fab

Level 9
Legacy Exclusive Member
Joined
Dec 11, 2004
Messages
3,554
Reaction score
2
I don't think he hired a lawyer, but an interesting read, thanks NS.

-=DCG=-

Not only that. They didn't even respond. This confirms my previous claim, if you can't afford a lawyer, forget about justice.

Having received no Response from Respondent, using the same contact details and methods as were used for the Commencement Notification, the Forum transmitted to the parties a Notification of Respondent Default.
 

PRED

Level 11
Legacy Exclusive Member
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
9,128
Reaction score
176
Congrats Adam & John.
Victory for commonsense.
Great domain btw ;)
I hope in cases like this the complainant has to pick up the tab for ALL the legal costs etc on both sides?
cheers
 

jberryhill

Philadelphia Lawyer
Legacy Exclusive Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2002
Messages
2,574
Reaction score
12
One comment in the case which raised my brow "It has been repeatedly held that pay per click sites are not a legitimate use of a domain name"

Is this a fact ?

As someone noted, most UDRP's are won by the Complainant. That doesn't mean the UDRP is necessarily "unfair" - it is simply a reflection of the fact that lawyers don't generally waste their time and their client's money on frivolous filings. I would expect most UDRP's to be won by the Complainant simply for that reason.

If you look over the list of UDRP decisions, they most commonly involve well-known marks, and the Respondent most often does not file a response. Again, that's a reflection on the fact that the UDRP is designed for no-brainer cybersquatting situations.

The problem, though, is that a lot of these no-brainer cases have involved famous marks pointed to PPC pages. For that reason, you see a lot of UDRP decisions which casually say something to the effect of "PPC is illegitimate". It *is* illegitimate when the domain name is a close variant of a famous mark, and the results are all competitive with that product (due to PPC advertisers themselves targeting a competitor's mark).

In contested cases, there have been plenty of decisions - groceryoutlet.com, snowboardsforsale.com, and so forth in which the panel has had no problem finding that providing search results which relate to a generic term or concept is a legitimate use of a domain.

As far as costs go, no, there is no provision in the UDRP for recovering costs. The question has come up from time to time in ICANN policy discussions, but is usually dropped because the UDRP providers are private agencies which do not have a mechanism for collecting costs or damages. Also, there would be no way to amend the UDRP to provide that losing Complainants would have to pay but losing Respondents wouldn't have to pay. So, you have to balance whether or not you would want a cost recovery mechanism to cut both ways. Figure, even if you had a defense with merit, you might not feel like going through the effort to respond, and simply allow the domain name to be transferred. In that situation, would it be fair to have the UDRP provider chasing after you to pay fees?

This confirms my previous claim, if you can't afford a lawyer, forget about justice.

I have seen plenty of domain registrants successfully defend their own UDRP. From time to time, I will take a look at a pro se response and provide a couple of changes, pointers to relevant prior decisions, and other things that will improve the response, at minimal cost. Several attorneys who do a lot of UDRP responses - Ari Goldberger, Steve Sturgeon, Stevan Lieberman, Zak Muscovitch, Brett Lewis, to name a few - have become fairly efficient at rapidly preparing and filing responses. Using a three-member panel fee at, for example, WIPO, costs $2000 for the panel fees, and I might take anywhere from four to eight hours to draft a response depending on the fact pattern, at $250 per hour.

So, if you are looking at a domain name that is worth $20,000 or so, then it's a business decision whether it is worth spending, say, $5K to defend it or not. If the domain name isn't worth much at all, then the downside of losing it is not that great an injustice.

Any legal dispute may have an uncertain outcome. A lawyer may be able to put together an argument that is designed to present the facts in a manner that a panel may find persuasive, but these things ultimately depend on the facts themselves. You can't make a silk purse out of a pig's ear.
 

Ian

DNF Exclusive
Legacy Exclusive Member
Joined
Mar 26, 2006
Messages
1,616
Reaction score
5
Great job John. A question that bothers me sometimes is whether a complainant has a right of claiming for reimbursement of WIPO costs by a respondent if they decide to press with charges at WIPO while I have stated explicitly that I deem it worthless to defend such a name and thus am willing to transfer it to them without coercion.
 

typist

Level 7
Legacy Platinum Member
Joined
Mar 26, 2006
Messages
919
Reaction score
0
A question that bothers me sometimes is whether a complainant has a right of claiming for reimbursement of WIPO costs

Complainants have the right to claim whatever they want. That doesn't give them the right to collect anything.

As far as costs go, no, there is no provision in the UDRP for recovering costs. The question has come up from time to time in ICANN policy discussions, but is usually dropped because the UDRP providers are private agencies which do not have a mechanism for collecting costs or damages. Also, there would be no way to amend the UDRP to provide that losing Complainants would have to pay but losing Respondents wouldn't have to pay. So, you have to balance whether or not you would want a cost recovery mechanism to cut both ways. Figure, even if you had a defense with merit, you might not feel like going through the effort to respond, and simply allow the domain name to be transferred. In that situation, would it be fair to have the UDRP provider chasing after you to pay fees?
 

Dave Zan

Level 8
Legacy Platinum Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2004
Messages
1,700
Reaction score
10
A question that bothers me sometimes is whether a complainant has a right of claiming for reimbursement of WIPO costs by a respondent if they decide to press with charges at WIPO while I have stated explicitly that I deem it worthless to defend such a name and thus am willing to transfer it to them without coercion.

Unless explicitly stated by any applicable "law", aren't rights arbitrary? If you
"feel" you have a right, then the next question is how to demonstrate that.
 

Creature

Level 8
Legacy Exclusive Member
Joined
Mar 12, 2006
Messages
1,462
Reaction score
0
As far as costs go, no, there is no provision in the UDRP for recovering costs.

Is there anything to stop the respondent just writing to the complainant at this stage and requesting reimbursement of the defence costs ;)? However unlikely the outcome, isn't there some way that defence costs can be attempted to be recovered without incurring extra legal costs?
 

Focus

Making Everything Click
Legacy Exclusive Member
Joined
May 15, 2005
Messages
8,934
Reaction score
244
I believe the defense costs are easily claimed on your business taxes at the end of the year if I am not mistaken, against earned income of course. (a deduction) They are a miscellaneous business expenditure considered necessary and vital to your online business no?
 

jberryhill

Philadelphia Lawyer
Legacy Exclusive Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2002
Messages
2,574
Reaction score
12
Is there anything to stop the respondent just writing to the complainant at this stage and requesting reimbursement of the defence costs ? However unlikely the outcome, isn't there some way that defence costs can be attempted to be recovered without incurring extra legal costs?

Attempted? Yes. Once in a long while, those costs will be folded into a larger deal, if the complainant has come to its senses and realized that it may have to obtain the domain name the old-fashioned way.
 

Mr. Deleted

DNForum Mod
Legacy Exclusive Member
Joined
Jul 24, 2004
Messages
4,293
Reaction score
603

Rockefeller

Level 11
Legacy Exclusive Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2005
Messages
8,011
Reaction score
58
Great to hear Adam! Good job Mr. Berryhill. It was a pleasure meeting you at DOMAINfest!
 

petrosc

Level 9
Legacy Exclusive Member
Joined
Jan 31, 2005
Messages
3,116
Reaction score
7
yes, congratulations to both of you. I hate it when some TM holders try to bully domain owners
 

rcade

Level 1
Legacy Platinum Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2007
Messages
11
Reaction score
0
I have been looking through the Arb Forum and it seems that the majority of cases are won by the complainant even some of the weaker ones.

From the reading I've done the past few months, the vast majority of cases are won by complainants. Part of the reason is that many domain owners don't even respond to the complaint and let the process be decided by a single arbitrator. Both of these practically guarantee a domain transfer.
 

Creature

Level 8
Legacy Exclusive Member
Joined
Mar 12, 2006
Messages
1,462
Reaction score
0
From the reading I've done the past few months, the vast majority of cases are won by complainants. Part of the reason is that many domain owners don't even respond to the complaint and let the process by decided by a single arbitrator.

I think JB was saying that it's also cos most of the lawyers wont take on a case unless they believe that there's a good chance of winning.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Who has viewed this thread (Total: 1) View details

The Rule #1

Do not insult any other member. Be polite and do business. Thank you!

Sedo - it.com Premiums

IT.com

Premium Members

MariaBuy

Upcoming events

New Threads

Our Mods' Businesses

UrlPick.com

*the exceptional businesses of our esteemed moderators

Top Bottom