moniker Moniker helped in domain theft...

[Poohnix]

I have received a more detailed response myself, the response here is more vague, of course.
I'm now fairly confident, say 80%, that I will eventually get the name back. But how long time it will take, noone knows. Because of that, I'm afraid I will lose another sale opportunity for this name too, since I've received a negotiable offer for it through another source.
As I see it, there are a range of things that are flawed in the combined Moniker/Snapnames/Oversee.net operation.

- Unlike other sales platforms, there isn't a proper Escrow process, even if the money is processed via Snapnames, and they are acting de-facto escrow. But they are not securing the payment before transferring the domain to the buyer, unlike all other similar sales systems. This in spite of them charging 100% more than most others. They may choose to take that risk themselves when auctioning drops, but they should not do that for third party sales, especially since this isn't made clear to the seller. (Alternatively, that they take that risk, and reimburse the seller.) I trusted their system was as secure as other methods, and that it would be as secure as when I sell a domain privately, using escrow. I was wrong.
- They failed to notify me as seller when the payment was reversed.
- They failed to lock the domain down to prevent it from being transferred out when the payment was reversed. They again failed to do so when they received my notice about it.
- They were extremely slow in reacting or responding to my tickets in the matter.
- They refused, for several days, to believe me when I pointed out that the domain in fact had been transferred out, and that it no longer was in Monikers control. This in spite of this fact being readily verified via WHOIS.
- This refusal to believe could have resulted in the domain becoming irrevocably lost, (I'm still not sure that it isn't), since it gave the culprit several more days in which to continue to move the domain.


To Moniker/Snapnames/Oversee.net: See this as a feedback on how to improve your security and service. If you need a quality consultant, you may contact me.

-G

 

[Theo]

The reversal occurred due to the buyer paying via credit card?

 

[Poohnix]

The reversal occurred due to the buyer paying via credit card?

I don't know yet which payment method was used, and not sure what I can write here when I find out. I'm still waiting for the Oversee.net legal department to give me all details.
I know it was only 4 hours and 2 minutes between the bid and the completion of the transaction, so it couldn't be a wire or similar.
The transfer out from my Moniker account occurred 23 minutes later.

-G.

 

[Adapt Web]

I don't know yet which payment method was used, and not sure what I can write here when I find out. I'm still waiting for the Oversee.net legal department to give me all details.
I know it was only 4 hours and 2 minutes between the bid and the completion of the transaction, so it couldn't be a wire or similar.
The transfer out from my Moniker account occurred 23 minutes later.

-G.

This is a RED FLAG to me.. There should be a buffer of time in which the domain CANNOT be transferred from Moniker after being purchased through SnapNames. 3 - 7 DAYS at minimum. I think it is ridiculous that a domain can be purchased for $xx,xxx at auction, a payment sent, and be transferred out within 5 hours.

 

[JuniperPark]

This is a RED FLAG to me.. There should be a buffer of time in which the domain CANNOT be transferred from Moniker after being purchased through SnapNames. 3 - 7 DAYS at minimum. I think it is ridiculous that a domain can be purchased for $xx,xxx at auction, a payment sent, and be transferred out within 5 hours.

This seems very odd to me too.

When I've won names at Snap it often takes several DAYS for me to even gain control of the domain, let alone complete a transfer... and I'm a many-year established customer and these are $xxx sales.

So how did this thief get such great service, while the seller was completely ignored?

Anyone else smelling an INSIDE JOB here?

The facts, as stated, don't add up.

 

[Adapt Web]

This seems very odd to me too.

When I've won names at Snap it often takes several DAYS for me to even gain control of the domain, let alone complete a transfer... and I'm a many-year established customer and these are $xxx sales.

So how did this thief get such great service, while the seller was completely ignored?

Anyone else smelling an INSIDE JOB here?

The facts, as stated, don't add up.

Inside Job or someone that knew how to abuse the system, because of this I find it hard to believe they executed this scam on only this domain. They must have practiced it, or tried it out on smaller $$ domains.

I'm sure the scope of domains here is much bigger if Moniker searched domains won at auction and the lead time after the domain is transferred out.

 

[Poohnix]

This is a RED FLAG to me.. There should be a buffer of time in which the domain CANNOT be transferred from Moniker after being purchased through SnapNames. 3 - 7 DAYS at minimum. I think it is ridiculous that a domain can be purchased for $xx,xxx at auction, a payment sent, and be transferred out within 5 hours.

That's what I've told them too. They have a 7 day waiting time before the seller can ask for a cash-out of the proceeds. It should be the same for the buyer, giving the seller access to the funds at the same time the buyer gets access to the domain. Their current arrangement shows a serious lack of safety thinking in their operation.

.

 

[exxe]

This seems very odd to me too.

When I've won names at Snap it often takes several DAYS for me to even gain control of the domain, let alone complete a transfer... and I'm a many-year established customer and these are $xxx sales.

With my past won names, it took less than a day to receive them. And some of them were in x,xxx range.

 

[JuniperPark]

With my past won names, it took less than a day to receive them. And some of them were in x,xxx range.

About 1/3 of mine were 1-2 days, 1/3 were 3-4 days, and the rest NEVER... I had to file support tickets just to get the login info. I've NEVER gotten it in 5 hours, much less get to the login info AND complete an entire transfer in 5 hours.

I think that can only be done by an "insider".

If not, I would like to hear why legit buyer like me are getting such poor service why scammers are getting ultra fast service.

 

[Poohnix]

About 1/3 of mine were 1-2 days, 1/3 were 3-4 days, and the rest NEVER... I had to file support tickets just to get the login info. I've NEVER gotten it in 5 hours, much less get to the login info AND complete an entire transfer in 5 hours.

I think that can only be done by an "insider".

If not, I would like to hear why legit buyer like me are getting such poor service why scammers are getting ultra fast service.

It was transferred out of my Moniker account that quickly, to the buyers Moniker account, not out of Moniker to another registrar. That didn't occur until several days later.
(AFTER the reversal of the payment, AFTER I notified them about it, and AFTER they had claimed they had locked the domain down...)

.

 

[Theo]

My single mid 5-figure transaction involving Moniker's escrow was flawless, however the buyer paid via wire. I'm a little concerned by the lack of explanation of what exactly the perpetrator took advantage of, as it makes me hesitant to use Moniker's escrow service again.

 

[Poohnix]

My single mid 5-figure transaction involving Moniker's escrow was flawless, however the buyer paid via wire. I'm a little concerned by the lack of explanation of what exactly the perpetrator took advantage of, as it makes me hesitant to use Moniker's escrow service again.

Snapname sales don't go via Monikers standard escrow system, I think... - it's integrated in Snapnames system, and the escrow transaction is handled there, rather than in Monikers escrow. But it's all integrated, once they have received the payment, the domain is transferred out of the sellers Moniker account to the buyers Moniker account. The seller receives a notification from Moniker of the transfer out - that's how I found out a name had sold at all.
But I think the procedure is similar in Moniker escrow, but I HOPE they are better at checking the validity of the payment there... (And hope they will improve the Moniker/Snapnames integrated system, although i don't think I will be tempted to try that again.)

.

 

[hina]

The last portion is the one that everyone is, undoubtedly, awaiting the outcome. There are several factors that contributed to this situation that, for security reasons, we cannot and will not discuss or disclose. (And I recognize that that response is less than satisfying or helpful but in a world where some are fully committed to fraudulent activity, it's a reality.)

Perhaps there were some "exploits" in your system, but, if you have fixed these "exploits" then there's no harm in disclosing them.

All of us want to know HOW exactly all of this happened.

 

[Poohnix]

Perhaps there were some "exploits" in your system, but, if you have fixed these "exploits" then there's no harm in disclosing them.

All of us want to know HOW exactly all of this happened.

So would I, but I strongly doubt that they've had time to fix those exploits yet. It wasn't until less than 2 days ago that they realized the full scope of the issue, that not only the payment had been reversed but also the domain had been successfully transferred out, and I doubt they've even had time to analyze fully what went wrong. Much less fix it.

So, in spite of everything, I understand why they don't tell anyone, since that could possibly be used by others, perhaps even improved upon to a fully successful theft (unless my domain already is), before they can fix it.

 

[ebess]

Poohnix -- So what happened? Did Moniker ever recover the domain they lost for you?? And if not, did they offer you compensation? Did you need to hire an attorney?

Hoping you got your domain back...

Please let us know what the end result was!

 

[ebess]

I find it very disturbing that no one from the Moniker/Snapnames/Oversee team ever responded to this thread to let the domaining public know that they had successfully resolved this issue. My guess is that it is because they did not. The lack of a response by the OP probably means a lawsuit required he keep quiet. I realize this is just a guess, as well, but it seems odd that we never heard back from Poohnix after all this and this was really the only reason that seemed to make any sense.

Unfortunately, I cannot speak to specifics of my situation, but I will STRONGLY WARN the domaining community that is is NOT SAFE to keep your domains with Moniker. Their comments about their security are flat out lies. And the runaround that Poohnix got with support (or lack thereof, I should say) is absolutely NOT a one time accident.

I remind everyone to keep in mind that since Oversee bought them, Moniker and SnapNames are in bed together. Moniker's cash cow isn't from domain registrations, it's from commissions on domain sales - even if those sales were without the owner's consent...

Consider yourselves warned...

And if anyone has a fabulous domaining attorney they've worked with, please PM me

Good luck to everyone.

 

[dvdrip]

Moniker security is a joke.
Latest joke was that a domain appeared in my account for a month and then disappeared without me getting any emails about the pushes.
They still have not replied to me about what happened after several emails.

 

[erdinc]

Poohnix,
I would like to know what happened at the end. Can you please post an update?

There are far too many things wrong here.
1) moniker/snapnames is responsible for the reversed funds. This is their problem, not the sellers. They should take the burden.

2) Why are they taking an escrow fee if they don't take responsibility of reversed funds?

3) moniker/snapnames seems to be full with stupid people who don't know what the heck they are doing. How on earth did they not think of blocking the domain for external transfers for 60 days? Enom does it for enom domains you win at namejet. Godaddy does it for any domain pushed between any godaddy accounts. Why not keep the domain within moniker for 2 months?

I found this whole incident very disturbing. Bunch of idiots running around not knowing what the heck they are doing.

 

[David G]

Quite odd Poohnix has not posted an update and left us hanging for lack of informatiin in this thread since July 2009 even though he has been active in many other threads?

 

[katherine]

Perhaps he's subject to a gag order.