Moral/Ethical Question

[mxzsleds]

Then why were you selling this name? You knew the season was ending and traffic would drop so you listed it for sale hoping someone wouldn't do their proper research.

Is that illegal? No
Is that immoral? Maybe
Should sellers be a little kinder to the people they do business with? Yes

Why am I selling, isnt that what I do? This is the dnforum, and I buy and sell names. I got this name from a drop auction, 4 days ago, hence the 4 days of traffic stats. You never questioned where or how I got the name. You want to talk about being kind... I am nothing but kind to my buyers, I let interested buyers test most names for free, I tranfer registrars for people for free, and I try to answer all questions. You can post all you want that the show is ending or came to an end, but dont try to make it seem like its my giant scam to sell this name, or dont make it seem like the name is worthless becuase it is not.

 

[GT Web]

Biggedon - I thought I knew you better than that.

I did ask an Admin, I posted this thread with a question and Adam gave me the answer. He told me what should be done and I did it.


I was not questioning how much the name was worth, I simply wanted you to tell the whole truth in your sales thread.

It really doesn't matter, as the name has been sold and the buyer didn't know what he was getting (he PM'ed me). I guess mxzsleds would say "too bad for him" because he didn't do his research.

I think that's pretty sad.

 

[mxzsleds]

The buyer can have his money back if he wants it. All I will say is before I personally buy any name, any name whether its for $10, or for $50,000 I do my homework. This isnt a game GT, its a business. Who is to say that vjsearch isnt worth $800 to a fan? I have bought names for thousands of dollars when I realized they were only worth half. You think the seller would ever give me money back because I made a bad buy? If you buy a house or a car and things start to break down do you get a refund, or get to exchange it? You should have test drove that car, or checked out everything you can about that house before you buy, atleast I do because its my money. With that said, we are talking about $280 for vjsearch. I am not trying to sell the name for xxxx, nor is it worth that. Buyer wants a refund he can have it... dont bother contacting him for me. I will do it.
Dan

"You can post all you want that the show is ending or came to an end, but dont try to make it seem like its my giant scam to sell this name, or dont make it seem like the name is worthless becuase it is not."

 

[DNGeeks]

if you were not sure, then why not contact a mod or administration first?

Rules exist to be changed with the times. This was a discussion on a potential rule change.

but you have no proof,that traffic will drop to "0"

No he doesn't. Incorrect? Maybe. Perhaps a statement such as "traffic will fall dramatically" would have been politically correct.

Syndicated shows are shows which are not broadcast on any particular network but are sold to individual stations for broadcast, typically at any time convienent for the station.

Can't see it happening, why would they sell their own show for another network to play it? What network would play it to advertise for another network? Reruns are a possibility however.

if you were not sure, then why not contact a mod or administration first?

Because mods/admins are typically slow at responding to issues. In fact I have an issue that's almost a week old that no one has responded to in the feedback forum. You'd need to read it as to why it's there.

do you plan on doing background checks on every name posted in "traffic section"?

That's a silly question. This domain has it's obvious issues due to the short life span of the traffic.

and if not, why did you choose this members thread to investigate?

Answered above, the domain has potential issues.

if you want to be so moral and ethical, then try following the forum rules as they exist.

Same answer as above. Rules exist to be changed with the times. This was a discussion on a potential rule change.

If you buy a house or a car and things start to break down do you get a refund, or get to exchange it? You should have test drove that car, or checked out everything you can about that house before you buy

Yes you do. That's what contracts and lemon laws are all about. Don't try and compare houses and cars to domains, they aren't the same in any way shape or form.

 

[NameYourself]

In my opinion, there should be nothing wrong with stating potential risks or unseen benefits in sales threads. So long as they are not direct attacks on the members themselves for personal reasons. Stick to facts only, and let buyers draw their own conclusions from those observations. For instance,

The Fact:

"It appears that most of the traffic is currently coming to the URL due to a popular TV show. This is why...."

The Fact plus a pre-supposed conclusion:

"It appears that most of the traffic is currently coming to the URL due to a popular TV show. You are ripping people off and traffic will certainly drop to zero in just days and remain that way forever."

I think if we all just stick to posting what we observe, concrete facts, and back that up with solid proof for both potential / omitted risks it would be beneficial to all buyers. This forum is about learning and I see many benefits if it was open to these kind of concreate, factual, backed-up observances in the sales threads. It's beneficial to all buyers to know all the facts (both good and bad), and helps everyone make a more educated purchase decision.

 

[mxzsleds]

No he doesn't. Incorrect? Maybe. Perhaps a statement such as "traffic will fall dramatically" would have been politically correct.

Rules exist to be changed with the times. This was a discussion on a potential rule change.



Can't see it happening, why would they sell their own show for another network to play it? What network would play it to advertise for another network? Reruns are a possibility however.



Because mods/admins are typically slow at responding to issues. In fact I have an issue that's almost a week old that no one has responded to in the feedback forum. You'd need to read it as to why it's there.



That's a silly question. This domain has it's obvious issues due to the short life span of the traffic.



Answered above, the domain has potential issues.



Same answer as above. Rules exist to be changed with the times. This was a discussion on a potential rule change.

There is a lot of B.S. in those responses

 

[Biggie]

Biggedon - I thought I knew you better than that.

I did ask an Admin, I posted this thread with a question and Adam gave me the answer. He told me what should be done and I did it.


I was not questioning how much the name was worth, I simply wanted you to tell the whole truth in your sales thread.

It really doesn't matter, as the name has been sold and the buyer didn't know what he was getting (he PM'ed me). I guess mxzsleds would say "too bad for him" because he didn't do his research.

I think that's pretty sad.

Hmmm

no you don't know me at all!

seems like you should have at least 2 warning points for your first 2 comments in that thread!

"great name" > these types of posts are not allowed!

then after some thought , I guess you felt like you should go and tell all about this name!

seems like a deliberate attempt to crash a sales thread to me!


imo ... you're lucky you didn't get banned for "30 days"!



in the future, unless you have "PROOF" of a scam or fraud, then do not make comments in other members sales threads.

 

[DNGeeks]

There is a lot of B.S. in those responses

Point out the BS, it's all true whether you want to admit it or not. And I also smell BS from your potential sale.

Domainers don't sell names that make a profit and continue to make a profit unless you need the cash or they suspect (or see) the traffic declining.

Hmmm

no you don't know me at all!

seems like you should have at least 2 warning points for your first 2 comments in that thread!

"great name" > these types of posts are not allowed!

then after some thought , I guess you felt like you should go and tell all about this name!

seems like a deliberate attempt to crash a sales thread to me!


imo ... you're lucky you didn't get banned for "30 days"!

Who sent you on a power trip tossing out threats? I can see an admin saying it, but not a mod. In my opinion it's not a mod's place to put someone in their place if they deserve it (statement has nothing to do with the thread, it's a generalized statement).

I may also suggest the use of punctuation marks other than exclamation points.

 

[NostraDomainus]

Failure to knowingly disclose relevant information can be seen as bad faith business, thus knowing such bad faith is present through proof of fact, and then calling out that person/business - is not a bad thing, imo.
(I believe WIPO holds the same principal in protecting domainers from corporations trying to reverse hijack a name using UDRP.)

This planet needs more honest, upfront people.

Now, one persons bad faith is another persons good business.

So what is the best way to approach such a situation in the context of online forums such as this - providing proof is the best way to go vs. empty rhetoric and/or accuations and/or insults.

With that proof, you can PM it to the buyer, and help them in their due diligence - something no one can say infringes on their thread. Even PM it to the seller to ask them for clarification - see what they say.

If it's a recognized pattern with past incidents know to the forum, then yeah, ask for clarification in their thread, citing the pattern of recognized behaviour and proof you have. It's the least someone can expect after being busted once and then having proof they are doing it again.

In the end, forums are not democracies, there is an owner/ruler - what the King/God says, goes!

(GL trying to usurp the thrown )

In general, without rules on the playground, all we will have is anarchy.

From what I've seen, general consensus is, 'show and tell' is what most of us kids want on the playgound, not 'hide n seek' - so Play Nice!

And to quote a fellow DNF member:

"I luv you all, we have to stick together!" ~ Mocus

Best Success in All your Endeavours.

 

[electrowerks]

Just my opinion... If I want to sell a domain name without people making public comments, use another web site, and not a forum. Some domain market place examples are ebay.com, godaddy.com auctions, sedo.com, or afternic.com. On these sites, private comments between the buyer and seller are allowed, but public comments are not allowed. There are advantages to selling a domain name on each site, and a seller must pick the right site for the sale. The dnforum appears to be a safer site for buyers.

The dnforum community regulates itself, and weeds out the bad apples. I feel secure/safe buying a domain from a member on the dnforum; expecially if that member has good ratings, comments, and history. All sales thread posting should be allowed in good faith.
-Gio

 

[gmac17]

I may also suggest the use of punctuation marks other than exclamation points.

classic, well played.

 

[eCommando]

I wish I can get all the relevant factual info in a sales thread.
Buyer should be able to make decision based on all the info (both good and bad); the more info the better.
I would like to be able to use DnForum as a research tool to buy names.
In this particular situation, the info/stats provided looked good to me so I bought it. If I knew that the show is being canceled, I may have made a different decision.
A lot of the time, I simply don't have the time to go around and do outside research.
During the first 2 weeks of this yr, I got burned with a lot of names that are no good.
Not blaming anybody tho. I just don't have the time. But I do wish that I can get all the info so
that I can make more educated decisions.

 

[Biggie]

Point out the BS, it's all true whether you want to admit it or not. And I also smell BS from your potential sale.

Domainers don't sell names that make a profit and continue to make a profit unless you need the cash or they suspect (or see) the traffic declining.



Who sent you on a power trip tossing out threats? I can see an admin saying it, but not a mod. In my opinion it's not a mod's place to put someone in their place if they deserve it (statement has nothing to do with the thread, it's a generalized statement).

I may also suggest the use of punctuation marks other than exclamation points.

Your points, are pointless!

I have no power over no one but me, and my family.


two different mods deleted "GT's" comments in the thread in question because of his comments, thus he could have received 2 warning points.

that is not a threat, but a fact.

for whatever reason, no points were issued.

now when another member does this, and his comments are subsequently deleted, should he receive warning points or "get a pass"?

so if everyone "gets a pass", then what?
a free-for-all in sales threads, that's what.

because members are not going to police themselves.
at least not all of them ....all the time.
those that do, i appreciate the hell out of them!
they come here maybe everyday, and never cause a problem
they just work within the guidelines and "do their thing".

but then you got those who like to be in the forefront
always challenging the rules and "getting it on" with moderators.
they don't mess with Adam, cause they know, when he's had enough...

they is out the door!




for your other, pointless point...

as a domainer, i have sold profitable names and bought the same, which have continued to be profitable...on both ends.

and in both scenerios, neither did i need the money or was there a "decline" in revenues or traffic!

seems like you are trying to make domainers a dirty word or something

 

[GT Web]

It would be nice if the Mods and Adam were on the same page.

 

[Biggie]

It would be nice if the Mods and Adam were on the same page.

how do you know that we are not?

maybe we are playing "good cop, bad cop".....

ya never know do ya!

 

[NameAlot.com]

Guys... It comes down to giving due diligence to anything purchased. Simple as that. It is always "Buyer Beware" as in most industries. It is the responsibility of the buyers to not be in haste for a purchase. Also, The MODS and ADMINS here do a rather poor job in giving out warning points and are very inconsistent with it. Here is a thread I started which was totally thrashed: http://www.dnforum.com/f323/70-prime-idns-com-com-thread-144251.html

Not a single warning point was given to anyone even though they blatantly admitted to breaking the rules. Are some people here above the law? How are the members suppose to take things seriously here when its allowed to slide a good enough amount of times in terms of points issued. I requested the formentioned thread deleted, and it was not done. I requested warning points issued and it was not done. Whats the point of a TOS that is not judiciously administerestered. This is not a criticism towards anyone person but constructive critism as to where some of the problem is comming from. It may not seem like a big deal but it sort of is. DNF is a great community but with any community there needs to be clear guidlines which are enforced. Where everyone can see it and feel like no one is above the law.

Thank You

 

[tas38]

What good does talking about it, if people running auctions can say no post to auctions and mods inforce it.

That seems silly to me, from what I seen sellers get pretty upset if you post anything. That will make their domain look any worst, infact I come across one auction. Where the seller post no post in the auction, and some one tried ask some thing. And the mod took and empty the post, and told them not to do that again.

RED FLAGS went off as soon as I seen that, I did a search fast and seen the seller got the doamin much much cheaper. And done nothing with it at all, to have it be worth that much. That was info anyone buying the domain would of wanted, but you could not post saying anything or asking anything.

So what to do, I posted a link to that info on the auction. I messed up that is for sure, with in 5 mins my phone ring. The seller was on the other end yelling bad things at me, and would not let me talk at all. Not only that, they said they would come here where I live and hurt me bad.

They looked up one of my domains, and got my ph# from there and called. The person that tried asking some thing in the auction, but was stopped from doing so by a mod. PMed me and thought the same thing as I did, but after that call I removed the link fast.

I will never do that again, but why does dnforum let that kind of auction go on here. I still wonder if the mod was in on that auction, but I will not trying to help others here anymore. Not after that phone call took place, it still seems really crazy.

That some one can stop others from posting on a auction, and the mods will inforce such a thing here. I should not have posted that link, because dnforum lets that kind of stuff go on here. And sellers will and can get very upset, and even find out where you live and your phone #. They said it's how they make their living, and how could I do that to another member. I wondered, how they could do that to another member here.

 

[Blarian]

Let's clear some of this up while also opening up the floor for change.

Most complaints I get are from buyers, very few from sellers.

now let's look at a transaction:

If I am the seller and I am questioned about a domain I have for sale; if I am legitimate I will defend it without issue. Of course if it's a personal attack which can happen because someone is mad about a previous deal that would bother me.

If I am the buyer, I would appreaciate someone pointing something legitimate out before I waste money on a domain that may have issues that I have not had time to look into completely.

So in this case, I would say as long as evidence is posted it should be allowed without people saying you are ruining a sales thread.

However if junk is posted that is untrue or not backed up, it will be the poster that is punished.

So if you call someone out, make sure its for good reason.

thoughts on this?

-=DCG=-

I agree with this. If a potential buyer has proof of a seller doing something fraudulent or extremely wrong, then I think it should be posted BUT only if it can be directly proven immediately (and done so at the time of your post.)

If you are assuming or just guessing that someone is doing something wrong and you don't have proof that you are willing to share along with your post or can't back it up with necessary proof, then, I don't think it should be posted in the first place and you would be better of sending a PM to staff of the forum to sort it out before you go posting claims without something backing them up.

 

[NameAlot.com]

I think that some of the ADMINS should read or re-read this post and start posting or thinking about some official stance to be added to the TOS so we can all be on the same page- mods, general community- everybody. There were several issues touched upon during the couse of this thread including inconsistency with warning points, adding a Flag system, thread deletion, when to post publicly, buyer research, facilitating staff intervention, TOS, solid proof before public post, etc. These are just of the top of my head and may be leaned because of my own biases. But thats a general summary. It would be great if an ADMIN can voice an official standpoint because right now I personally am having to send PMs to several mods and just sent 1 to an admin with an issue at hand. Lets here it ADMINs, where do we all stand! What are the best and official recourse for the issues at hand? Do we need a flag system as it has come up as a suggestion in the past before and I've remade it in detail? Should there be public warnings? If so, when is it allowed? Should we just contact a MOD when we feel something's wrong? What about the time factor? Or maybe it's just "Buyer Beware" and we should all use good judgement? When are points issued and/or enforced? When do posts get deleted? Should there be a mandatory verification process? I don't know, but these are just some of the questions IMO are at hand right now. I dare say there's not one easy solution to these as there will always be bad apples in communities and that is the sad part. But perhaps some small changes can start helping things just a little bit more because DNforum is a great community and is always only improving.

 

[A D]

We will post a decison on the tomorrow am.

-=DCG=-