NAR steal word Realtor?

[options]

"http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/artic...REG3738BSN1.DTL"

Ummm... Options, that article is from November 2003. The link I provided earlier is to the decision that was rendered two weeks ago. The case is over. The NAR won.

I know.
I provided the link in order to give more light on already chewed out opinions about origin of the word "realtor".

 

[Garry Anderson]

Daddy H - I presume you went to school ;-)

People whom spout silliness are called ABSURD - as in "You are ABSURD".

You say "Realtor" is not obvious simple progression of "Realty" - now you are funny.

Show any two intelligent people the words "Realty" and "Realtor" and ask if the latter is an obvious simple progression of the former.

Realtor does not have a secondary meaning - it is used for the same purpose - people selling realty.

Dictionary recognition only means they report the registration status (even though status is flawed).

People are getting realtor domains because "realtor" is recognised as a generic ordinary noun in other English-speaking countries - and the world is not just America.

"Realtor" is obvious simple progression of realty - and therefore should not have been allowed as registered trademark for this purpose.

Daddy H> PERSONALLY, I WOULD BE CONFUSED IF I WENT TO APPLE.COM AND DID *NOT* FIND APPLE COMPUTERS. IT IS THE MOST FAMOUS OF THE APPLE BRANDS.

Well done - that is just what corporations want you to think - what a good sheep you are ;-)

What about other "apple" trademarks and small businesses?

Trademarks are to identify source - NOT to claim world rights to a word or words - true or false?

Virtually every word is (or can be) registered as a trademark - true or false?

Domain names are NOT just for registered trademarks - true or false?

Yes - the protected TLD .reg is technically feasable.

Yes - .reg would ease confusion. It would identify registered trademarks - like .gov signifies US government sites.

It is YOU whom misses the point.

IT IS NOT USED FOR MARKETING.

It is merely additional - for DIRECTORY services and certificate of AUTHENTICATION.

e.g. apple..us.reg would give internet directory of all apple trademarks in US.

e.g. People entering apple.newTLD could get apple.music.uk.reg - authentication of where they want to be.

It is nothing earth shattering - just a directory and authentication system.

Every domain using dictionary words will be 'confusingly similar' to trademark - As an American - what about First Amendment Rights of your fellow citizens - do you care nothing about them?

 

[Tippy]

Lets say I own a Realtor Domain and wanted to offer like free sub-domain Realtor Websites, do you think I would have a problem?

I'm not sure if this type of service would even interest realtors, but just wondering.

Thanks,

Mike

 

[Garry Anderson]

Sorry Mike - I think if you owned a Realtor Domain - you are likely to run into problems.

 

[Garry Anderson]

In related UK news:

The recent privatisation of the UK prison services ran into a legal furore today.

As most people know, the prison service was split into the national and private sectors last year.

The National Union of Jailors (NUJ) was originally formed in the national sector.

The NUJ has taken legal action against private sector jail-keepers - for calling themselves "jailors".

A spokesman for the NUJ explained, "We first used the word 'Jailor' in 1840 and we registered trademark in 1950."

"We do not care if the rest of the world call their jail-keepers "Jailors" - these privateers are not entitled to use the word. We may consider allowing them to join - err - obviously then they have to each pay us £1,000 a year membership fee."

Article is at: CorporatePropagandaNewsForIntellectuallyChallenged.com

 

[Tippy]

Thanks Garry

My life revolves around problems, I think I have room for one more

Mike

 

[Garry Anderson]

Mike - I have a saying: "Every problem can be solved - until it is proven otherwise"

 

[Tippy]

Well, I am going to go ahead with my plan and see what happens, worse comes to worse they take the name off me and if thats what happens so be it, I figure, it don't hurt to try.

Thanks again,

Mike

 

[Garry Anderson]

Mike - if the worse comes to the worse - I think they can do more to you than just take the domain away.

I believe the system is corrupt.

Please get legal advice.

 

[Garry Anderson]

By the way Daddy H:

How can I send a letter addressed with just the word "Apple" and expect the postman to know that I want it to go "Apple Records" in UK and not "Apple Computers" in USA?

That is:

Apple Records
27 Ovington Square
London, SW3 1LJ
ENGLAND

And NOT:

Apple Computers
1 Infinite Loop
Cupertino, CA 95014
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA

It does not take great genius to see that the simple word is insufficient.

 

[jberryhill]

"Lets say I own a Realtor Domain and wanted to offer like free sub-domain Realtor Websites, do you think I would have a problem?"

You want to offer those websites to whom? Realtors? Did you read the rules they must follow as members of the NAR (to which I posted a link earlier)?

 

[Tippy]

Hi,

Yes I did, twice now

From what I read I could be ok, but its very iffy. Yes it would be directed at Realtors.

Mike

 

[DaddyHalbucks]

garry anderson wrote:

Realtor does not have a secondary meaning - it is used for the same purpose - people selling realty.
+++++++++++++++++++

"Secondary meaning" is legal terminology.

In common parlance it means "fame" or recognition that the goods or services derive from a single source.

 

[DaddyHalbucks]

Garry,

Why is .REG superior to the USPTO (R) symbol to designate a registered trademark?

 

[namedropper]

Show any two intelligent people the words "Realty" and "Realtor" and ask if the latter is an obvious simple progression of the former.

Several intelligent people here already told you that it isn't. Several court cases have also declared this. If your only argument is that you are right because everyone else must be stupid to disagree with you, sorry, that just doesn't cut it.

 

[Garry Anderson]

Daddy H - .reg is NOT superior to the USPTO (R) symbol.

It is merely a label that assures the consumer - to identify the site as registered trademark (only holders can get them) - as .gov identifies US government sites.

"[t]o establish secondary meaning, a manufacturer must show that, in the minds of the purchasing public, the primary significance of a product feature or term is to identify the source of the product rather than the product itself."

Inwood Laboratories v. Ives Laboratories Inc., 456 U.S. at 851 n. 11

I was attempting to be ironic - I forgot for a while you are American ;-)

The primary significance of a "Realtor" is people selling realty - the product itself is people selling realty.

You do not deny then - that .reg could give absolute assurance of registered trademark - a certificate of AUTHENTICATION?

You do not deny then - that .reg could give DIRECTORY functionality?

You do not deny then this has only a positive aspect for the public?

ALSO - you still have not told me how the postman knows where to deliver my "Apple" letter ;-)

Dan - what can I say - sorry if I have really offended you.

What have the following pairs of words in common?

Jail - Jailor

Vend - Vendor

Communicate - Communicator

Operate - Operator

Warranty - Warrantor

Advocate - Advocator

Advise - Advisor

Guarantee - Guarantor

Realty - Realtor

Of course, there is the er's:

Deal - Dealer

Golf - Golfer

etc.

Notice a pattern developing?

Each one is progression of the other - the "or" or "er" is being used to signify people.

I am really sorry if you cannot think for yourself and see that ;-)

 

[jberryhill]

"[t]o establish secondary meaning, a manufacturer must show that, in the minds of the purchasing public, the primary significance of a product feature or term is to identify the source of the product rather than the product itself."

And that is precisely what the evidence showed in the TTAB case that started this thread - that the overwhelming majority of the purchasing public relevant to the NAR's membership services, i.e. real estate agents, perceive "Realtor" as a distinctive indicator of source or origin of the NAR's membership services.

When you see a word like "show", it means "show" - produce evidence - demonstrate. Evidence is not about what seems "logical" or "reasonable". Evidence is about what are the facts, and the facts of human behavior and perception that are relevant to whether a trademark has secondary meaning, are not "logical" or "reasonable". People do not behave like machines. So, Garry, you can go on until you are blue in the face about what makes sense to Garry Anderson, or what "should" make sense according to some logical reasoning. But what matters is the impression made in the minds of the relevant consumer of the services in question. When you have gathered the results of your own scientific survey on that question, feel free to tell us what the perception is in those minds other than your own.

Hal, maybe Garry has one point, though

Absurdity - Absurditor

 

[Garry Anderson]

"[t]o establish secondary meaning, a manufacturer must show that, in the minds of the purchasing public, the primary significance of a product feature or term is to identify the source of the product rather than the product itself."

John> And that is precisely what the evidence showed in the TTAB case that started this thread - that the overwhelming majority of the purchasing public relevant to the NAR's membership services, i.e. real estate agents, perceive "Realtor" as a distinctive indicator of source or origin of the NAR's membership services.

If you have not seen any facts John - it is that you are blinkered.

Also obviously, the spoof example of NUJ claim on word "Jailor" - highlighting the absurdity and real monopolistic nature of NAR claim on word "Realtor" - obviously went way over your head.

People perceive a "Realtor" is a real estate agent - not any membership services - duh.

Perhaps you can tell me how the postman knows where to deliver my "Apple" letter ;-)

P.S. As I said before, people whom spout silliness are called ABSURD - as in "You are ABSURD".

 

[DaddyHalbucks]

Garry,

You make the most hardened ideologue look like waffler.

Can some MOD please close this thread? It is a waste of electrons.

 

[Garry Anderson]

Waffler = somebody who speaks or writes evasively.

It is you and John that evades answering questions.

You, for example:

You do not deny that .reg could give absolute assurance of registered trademark - a certificate of AUTHENTICATION?

You do not deny that .reg could give DIRECTORY functionality?

You do not deny that this has only a positive aspect for the public?

You still have not told me how the postman knows where to deliver my "Apple" letter.

Only monkey-brained cretinous morons would think that a letter could reach a SPECIFIC destination using address "Apple", "Ball", "Cat", "ABC" etc. - people like those in UN WIPO, US DoC and ICANN.

The call of evasive person, "If I answer these questions, I may be proven wrong. Can some MOD please close this thread? Pretty please - quick." ;-)