PLEASE HELP!Lost domain:Namebargain let an Enom'er take my domain--how do I get back?

[canadia]

Summary:
(please also see a concluding summary at the bottom with some more info)
[Also, if you just want to read this quickly, the coloured and/or bold text has the key points (but the other text has useful details I think). Thanks]


PLEASE HELP! Can I get my domain back? I think it got taken in an "internal" type of "enom club-drop transfer". (the registered date still shows 2000, but now it's in someone else's name)... I think it's kind of like a "NetworkSolutions-to-Snapnames" situation.

What ticks me off is that Namebargain let it go into ClubDrop early (I think) and their support service was so slow in telling me that I wasn't able to renew it myself.

If you can provide any info on what the Namebargain-to-"Enom ClubDrop" procedures are like, that would be hugely appreciated!

Or anything on what Enom's internal ClubDrop procedures are like would also be helpful.

Like what kind of timelines are involved? Does anyone know how many days it takes (after the expiration) for a domain to "expire" into the Enom ClubDrop? (is it 34 days after the expiry date?)

PM messages are also very welcome. Thanks


Details:

I have a lot of domains, and unfortunately have kept most of them (around 200) with :censored: Namebargain.com since around 2001/02.

[none of the domains are amazingly good, but a lot are decent... various domains for some regions near me and for a variety of content categories and web service things]


Namebargain is a division of Register.com, but since about 2004, the Namebargain platform has actually been on enom's system (no idea why).


Anyway, my problem is that I had 3 domains with them that expired on April 19. Since I knew they had a 35-day grace period (and partly due to cashflow issues), I generally wait about 3 weeks before renewing.

I check my spreadsheet of domains about every week or so, but I also check my control panel every few days (Namebargain uses the Enom control panel)... and when I do, I check the control panel's tab that's supposed to specifically list "Expired Domains", so that I can renew any domains that are around day 25 to 30.
(since the grace period is 35 days)

(I write more about their control panel near the bottom...)


So on May 20, I checked the tabs, and in the "Redemption" tab, I found there were 3 domains that were in "Extended Registration Grace Period" (for which the web interface wants you to pay $160 each to renew the domain).

This isn't the ICANN Redemption period, but just an artificial one Namebargain creates. [I figure Namebargain simply renews any domains that are long-time registrations (since sucky domains would have gone unrenewed in previous years)].


Anyway, I was kind of surprised, because I thought I would have renewed those 3 domains already (like around day 25 or so).

[near the bottom of this write-up, I talk about the control panel, and I think its screwiness contributed to the lapses].


So I was surprised, but figured "no biggie", because I've had this happen a few times in the past few months, and if you phone them or submit a support ticket, they'll renew it for $8.88.

So this was Saturday, May 20, and the department in charge of the renewals isn't available on the weekend (so I couldn't phone them... plus the time I did a couple of weeks earlier, they said I had to send an email). So I submitted a support ticket on May 20, and on Monday, May 22, I get an email reply saying the cost would be $160 for each domain due to a "new procedure".

Not agreeing with that, and not wanting to wait 2 days for another reply, I decided to phone them... After I pointed some things out relating to the terms & past info they provided (and how no notice was give about this "new procedure"... the site's Terms hadn't changed in months), they agreed to renew for $8.88.

This was at about 2:30pm on May 22 (which is like day 34 if you count April 19 as a full day). They said they would renew the 3 domains and send me an email... I expected one that afternoon, but didn't get one and figured they were just slow.

That evening, I checked one of the domains, and it was renewed, so I figured they all had been renewed.
(bad assumption

Then the next morning at 8am (Tues, May 23), I get an email saying they were able to renew 2 of them, but that the 3rd one (and best one!) "was released and registered by another party before we could catch it."

But even if you count April 19 as a day, then May 23 is still only day 35 of the grace period.


So now my domain still shows the original registration date as like April 2000, but it's registered in the name of someone else. Also, although the whois used to show it being registered with Register.com, now it says Enom (although I already knew Namebargain uses Enom's system... seems like Register.com's phone support people don't realize it though).


The worst thing is I didn't realize it till now... I was checking whois info on some of my domains, and this is when I found the domain was registered under the name of someone else.

When the email from Namebargain came in my inbox on Tuesday, May 23 I had assumed it was just the usual confirmation stuff like they always send, so I hadn't opened it because I've been so busy with other things. (again, bad assumption )



Although I know I should have renewed it by the expiry date to avoid any of these problems, what really ticks me off is that I just found out how much their stupid control panel sucks!!! (it's the same as Enom's)

The control panel's tab for "Expired Domains" is supposed to tell you which of your domains is expired and needs renewal.

After all the problems I had last week, I checked it on May 22 to make sure there were no domains listed in that tab with expirations in April. And so when I checked, there were none listed for April (and I'm actually fairly sure there were none [for April] listed in the tab the week before either]

But I just noticed that I have 4 domains that expired in late April, and they aren't listed in the "expired" tab! They aren't in my "Expiring Domains" tab either [and aren't in the "Redemption" tab fortunately].

I found out because I was checking my own spreadsheet of domains, and looked up the whois info (for ones with expirations in late April) to make sure they were okay... and that's when I saw they were expired and needed renewal. I was fortunately able to add each to the control panel shopping cart individually and renew for $8.88.

But there was also 1 in the damn "Redemption" tab... to avoid the problems described above, I went and paid the $160 to renew it, but Namebargain better refund me the extra amount over $8.88 :angry_smile:

What annoys me is that I closely went through the control panel tabs (for "Expiring", "Expired", and "Redemption" domains) on May 22 after having the problems with the other domains, and these 5 domains weren't listed in any of the tabs.


And if I hadn't looked into it in-depth now, I bet I wouldn't have seen the other 4 domains until they turned up in the "Redemption" tab. :angry_smile:

The damn control panel doesn't list domains like it should, so I obviously shouldn't have trusted Namebargain like I did :angry_smile:


So, a summary of my thoughts:

- I know that after a domain expires, the owner kind of has no claim on it... but grace periods listed in Terms & Conditions should be followed at least...

- I know that the onus is on the owner to ensure their domain is renewed... but what ticks me off is the damn control panel is faulty!
(either by accident, or maybe they've done it on purpose in order to get more domains to fall into the $160 renewal phase, or auctioned off at Enom's ClubDrop)

--- I think the fact that some "expired domains" weren't listed in the "Expired Domains" tab led to me not realizing that some of the domains were in that status.
(in my case, if I didn't see a domain listed in the "Expired" tab, it led me to assume I had renewed it a few days earlier [in my prior check of the "Expired Domains" tab])


- I realize that the onus is on me to manage my domains, but damn... the control panel should work properly at least

- And finally, the Terms & Conditions still state there's a 35 day grace period... and yet I contacted them on Day 32 (or even 31 depending on how you count it), got a reply on Day 34, talked to them on the phone on Day 34 and they said they would renew the 3 domains. And then on the morning of Day 35, they tell me one of the domains was "caught" by someone else, even though it essentially stayed in the Enom internal system the whole time...


So:

1) The domain didn't even stay in the grace period for the full 35 days.

2) The domain was still renewable from the web interface for $160 on Day 34. If the jerks had simply told me on Day 34 that it couldn't be renewed for $8.88, I would have gone and renewed it for $160! Instead, they didn't bother telling me anything until the next morning when they said "someone else caught it" :angry_smile:

3) Don't trust Namebargain's control panel to work properly.


Sorry this got so long, but if anyone could provide information on how Enom's ClubDrop works (and especially what their "Namebargain-to-ClupDrop" procedures are like), I would hugely appreciate it!

Or if you have any other thoughts on what I could do to try and get my domain back, I would be very grateful.

Thanks

 

[DNjet]

section 1.d. at namebargain TOS below , looks like you are done.

You acknowledge and agree that Registrar does not guarantee that you will be able to register or renew a desired domain name, even if our systems indicate that domain name is available, or you are able to complete an order with respect to such name. You also understand that Registrar cannot know with certainty whether or not the domain name which you are seeking to register is simultaneously being sought by a third party, or whether there are any inaccuracies or errors in the domain name registration or renewal process or related databases, including the various WHOIS or other registry databases. You also acknowledge and agree that Registrar is not responsible for any inaccuracies or errors in the domain name registration or renewal process. You are solely responsible for making sure that your registration or renewal has been properly processed. You further acknowledge and agree that Registrar may elect to accept or reject your application for registration or renewal for any reason at its sole discretion, such rejection including, but not limited to, rejection due to a request for registration or renewal of a prohibited domain name. You also acknowledge and agree that Registrar is not liable or responsible in any way for any errors, omissions or any other actions by any third party including any registry administrator arising out of or related to your application for and registration of, renewal of, or failure to register or renew a particular domain name.

 

[canadia]

Yeah, I had seen that I guess it's the standard type of disclaimer everyone uses.


It's just that Namebargain (Register.com) is such a big company, and kind of had a good reputation (past tense now), such that:


1) You wouldn't expect the control panel to not function properly
(unless the malfunctioning is on purpose... reminds me of how Network Solutions had that big "free domain transfer" deal in the Autumn of 2003, because they were really planning on having their expiring domains go straight to Snapnames the following year... so they probably got lots of "expirations" from that)


2) You wouldn't expect them to sell-off your domain even before the full 35 days of the grace period are up.


3) You wouldn't expect their client support to be so slow in telling me that a domain couldn't be renewed for $8.88 (if they had just told me the afternoon I talked to them, I could have renewed it myself for $160... that would be better than losing it ).


4) And since those support people work with the Namebargain/Enom system, I'm sure they knew the domain was at risk of being lost the next day, but they didn't mention that at all...

The people I was talking to were the "Partner Solutions" people (not just the regular people you get when you call... )... but I found them very unsatisfactory.


Part of the reason I had stayed with Namebargain for so long was because their support used to be so good, but I've found it's seriously gone downhill since about 2004.

I really plan to move my domains away now, but I just wish I could somehow get back the domain that's been taken by an Enom customer.



Anyone know what Enom's ClubDrop timelines are? I guess I just want to confirm whether it's 34 days (after the expiry date)?

 

[katherine]

I've had a similar issue with a name originally registered with Namebargain.
To sum up and if I'm not wrong they were an offshoot of register.com back in 2000-2001, then it looks like the names would have migrated to the Enom platform somehow.

My post here:
http://www.dnforum.com/f26/my-name-vanished-thread-119638.html

Also Enom has tricks of their own like 'extended redemption status' which is not the true redemption period. Basically there are stockpiling domains instead of releasing them into the regular delete cycle (ie. they keep domains for themselves).

Bottom line of this: never EVER EVER let a name expire unless you actually want to drop it. Technically you can still recover it but it can enter redemption period earlier than expected and you would have to pay an out-of-redemption fee which is much higher than the standard renewal fee.

Also some registrars will actually put the name on auction when it expires, but before redemption period, like godaddy at TDNAM. So the original owner can stil reclaim it.
I just grabbed a name this way and I have to wait about 2 weeks to confirm ownership...
It's good business for the registrar: instead of letting names expire and be deleted they try to get some $$$ out of them...

Do not rely on the registrar reminders either. I think you are screwed on this one.

 

[dotNetKing]

Names acquired with the pre-expiry auctions at enom have an auction lock, presumably to enable enom to return a name to a previous owner (if they pay the redemption fee? BUt I'm not sure about this)

For an example of the timescale on this, I have a domain with renewal/expiry date of 22 Apr 2006

I acquired it on 25 May 2006, ie around 33 days after exiry date.

It is now on "auction lock" until 6 July 2006.

This is part of the terms for pre-expiry auctions:

"eNom may make available for auction certain expired domain names (the "Pre Release Expired Domains" or "Pre Release"). Pre Release Expired Domains are those domain names that have expired and have not yet been (but may be) redeemed by the former registrant (the "Former Registrant"), but may be auctioned by eNom. This is a way for users to register domain names that they are interested in before they are deleted from the registry and put back into the available domain name space."

http://www.enom.com/terms/clubdrop_agreement.asp#prerelease

Note it says that have not yet been (but may be) redemeemed by the former registrant.

It perhaps remains unclear as to exactly when the "redemption period" begins and end, as far as enom is concerned.

 

[canadia]

Doh, I was writing a reply to sdsinc and accidentally hit ctrl-W (apparently closes the Firefox tab) instead of ctrl-A (to select all), but I'll re-write that reply next.


But thanks a lot, dotNetKing, this is very helpful to know! It sounds like there may still be a chance that I could get the domain back.

In the case of your domain (that you acquired on May 25), does the whois information already show your name (as of May 25)?

For an example of the timescale on this, I have a domain with renewal/expiry date of 22 Apr 2006

I acquired it on 25 May 2006, ie around 33 days after exiry date.

It is now on "auction lock" until 6 July 2006.

http://www.enom.com/terms/clubdrop_agreement.asp#prerelease

 

[dotNetKing]

In the case of your domain (that you acquired on May 25), does the whois information already show your name (as of May 25)?

Yes, enom's whois shows me as registrant etc.

 

[canadia]

Cool, thanks for letting me know So I think there may be a decent chance I could get it back, even if I have to pay $160 or something.

Hopefully the Namebargain/Register.com people already know about these Terms (although from some of the explanations they give me sometimes, I don't know if they're not well informed [or misinformed] or just trying to give easy answers targetted at newbies... plus in the email reply they sent, they didn't mention any chance of getting it back, so they may not be aware)... but at least I can show them the Enom auction info, so now there's hope!

 

[VioxxLawyers]

How can someone "forget" to renew his domains? i get so many notices all the time, its annoying but at least they make sure i dont forget lol

It's not their responsability, am sorry but anyway they are still not registered, so bid on it and you may get it back, by paying $$$$ for your mistake.

 

[canadia]

Argh, this makes me angry:


After logging in to Enom to check out their "pre-release auctions", I see that from 10 or so domains I've checked:

- domains with an expiration of April 26 have an auction expiry of May 30 at about 9am Eastern

- domains with an expiration of April 25 have an auction expiry of May 29 at about 9am Eastern


So my domain with an expiration of April 19 must have had an auction expiry of May 23 at about 9am Eastern. But I had talked to them on the phone on May 22 (after emailing them on May 20); and they did renew the other 2 domains with no problem.

But they emailed me on May 23 at 7:20am to say "unfortunately [the domain] was released and registered by another party before we could catch it."

However, at 7:20am, it may not have even finished the auction :angry_smile:


To be honest, part of me has been wondering if they did it on purpose out of spite, because I pushed so hard about not paying the extra $150 per domain [usd$450 total] for the unfair "new procedure" (re: how they said they wouldn't renew the 3 domains for $8.88 each, even though I'd been told earlier over the phone and email more than a few times that they would [and since no prior notice of the "new procedure" had been given or listed on the web site]).








The forum script seems to automatically merge my replies, so I'll post the reply to this here:

How can someone "forget" to renew his domains? i get so many notices all the time, its annoying but at least they make sure i dont forget lol

It's not their responsability, am sorry but anyway they are still not registered, so bid on it and you may get it back, by paying $$$$ for your mistake.

I didn't really forget... I explained all the details in my original posting, but essentially it was because:

1) It seems the 35-day grace period isn't really in effect anymore.
[although 35 still seemed to be a magic number when I talked to Namebargain about renewals the past few months, and "35 to 45 days" are still mentioned in their Terms & Conditions (it may have been that those other few domains that almost reached 35 just weren't good enough to be desired at auction)]

2) There's no longer a 30-day redemption period after that grace period.

3) The control panel doesn't work properly, so all of the expired domains don't show up in the "Expired Domains" tab like they should. I was trusting the control panel to show me what domains were expired and needing renewal, but obviously now I know I shouldn't have.

(and I figured that since I do cross-reference with my spreadsheet periodically, the worst case scenario would be that I would have to pay a redemption fee within 30 days... but I didn't realize they had cut out the 30-day period)

 

[dotNetKing]

I understand your strategy of delaying renewals for cash flow purposes and I did this a lot a couple of years ago.

With most of the registrars changing their procedures regarding late renewals, and with having 5 of my names go into godaddy's pre-release auction (4 of which I eventually recovered at little cost), I now try to renew before expiry date, even though I often cut it rather short and in some cases pass renewal date by a couple of days.