Scientist: Global warming could melt ice caps, eliminate half of Earth's species

[H2FC]

GoPC: Very well thought-out, logical post.

DMTALK:
With the 2006 hurricane season over and the record-breaking freeze of 2007, your bet would be like betting on an football game that has already been played. You've ALREADY lost -- and you still want to make the bet?

I know, I know, I should stop trying to confuse you with things like "facts", "evidence", and "history", you've already made up your mind.


And finally, a check on today's "global warming" headlines:
Winter storms kill 66, chill Sun Belt states

Hey juniper....I don't believe you know the difference between facts, evidence, and history.....apparently you don't know much about betting either. Why don't you just go back to your little mushroom corner and let us grownups enjoy our civil discussion.

 

[tas38]

Algore... is making MILLIONS promotoing Global Warming.

Just how is he, making millions doing that ?

How much did big oil pay to get bush into office, and how much of a return did they get on that investment. Do you really want to open that can of worms, because if they follow the bush money trail. You will find out what is really going on, and bush and his side kick would face many charges I'm sure.

How about that Enron, I can tell you right now most people do not want to go there. Global warming is not a Political problem, and everyone needs to remember that. But if people want to push it as such, you will see the one really speading public panic. Bush has jump and danced all over global warming, but now even he has to admit it's real.

 

[GoPC]

Tas... Although you are pationate about your thoughts, opinions and impression of the world around you, your *##$_ Bush @#($#&$ )(*@$ Bush #)(#$@# big oil #@($&#* Bush statements put you firmly into the catagory I was speaking about.

For YOU, it's not about the Planet, the warming trend or the issue itslef... it's an outlet for you to complain about Bush.

YOU do the math... YOU find out ho much Algore makes on his speeches, appearances, his movie, his endorsements, etc. You don't agree with anything I tell you anyway. Find out for yourself. And then ask... does it matter who makes MORE if the issue is capitalizing on it in the first place?

I admit we are in a warming trend. Does that make Global Warming, as defined by the doomsdayers, REAL? Does it mean that Bush is responsible?

If you can, if you are able... get to the root of your personal issue. If it's Bush and your perception that every credit card reader at the Gas Pump dumps cash into his pockets then you need to be honest with yourself and just start a Bash Bush thread and quit hiding behind the pretense of Global Warming.

Because people that do that are exactly WHY nobody takes Globel Warming as anything more than Political offense.

GoPC!

 

[GAMEFINEST]

that sucks

 

[H2FC]

I think the use of the word "nobody" here is out of place. I believe it would be much more appropriate to say "Because people that do that are exactly WHY skeptics take Global Warming as nothing more than Political offense. Who are, (just so you will know) in the minority group.

 

[tas38]

( YOU do the math... YOU find out ho much Algore makes on his speeches, appearances, his movie, his endorsements, etc. )

Sure he makes money, but he would make money no matter what he talks on. But I'm sure, that big oil would pay him much more to say global warming is not real.

I said.....

Global warming is not a Political problem, and everyone needs to remember that.

That part I posted, seems to have been over looked.

And I do not see anyway, to talk about global warming and bush not be talked about. As he can do more to help or hurt, the global warming problem then anyone else in the USA right now. That is not political at all, but people can turn anything into a political problem for sure.

 

[GoPC]

They are only skeptics to you, my friend, as they simply believe differently than you. Political Activists have always used VOLUME to simulate Majority. The Minority has long since had the loudest voice.

GoPC

 

[H2FC]

They are only skeptics to you, my friend, as they simply believe differently than you. Political Activists have always used VOLUME to simulate Majority. The Minority has long since had the loudest voice.

GoPC

Oh....come on now--you know better than that. Surely you know that those who don't agree with the global warming theory are known as "skeptics" all over the world....thats common knowledge, lets not try to change that.

Why do you insist on referring to those who believe in the global warming greenhouse gas theory as "political activists"? We're not political activist; we are the majority. Its not our purpose to turn our beliefs into a political debate. I believe you're the one who started that. I may have to go back and check the record a little on that.

The minority may sometimes appear to have the loudest voice but thats just one of the tactics they use to express their unpopular opinion. And yes, you are right. the skeptics are the ones who use their loud voices to try to turn every serious global warming debate into a three ring circus.

I was just watching the world news on NBC and they were talking about the antarctica ice overlying the south pole melting away much, much faster than what had been reported before. They showed pictures of it. The scientist are saying positively its caused by global warming, which is caused by the greenhouse effect, which in turn is caused by humans burning fossil fuels. They are very concerned that if its not stopped, slowed down, or at least contained in some way soon there may be what they are calling a tipping point, at which point it will be impossible to stop.

Now you, as a skeptic, will probably just laugh this off and call it more efforts toward inciting public panic. I, on the other hand, pride myself with enough common sense to know and understand there are most likely many potentially serious complications from such findings. It bothers me but I am not at the point of panic. Not even close. I really believe the world community will come together in time to save us from disaster......but it will be costly. The longer the world waits...the more it will cost. Thankfully the skeptics are in the minority.

 

[tas38]

I'm really starting to think, that the few people that say there is no global warming. Is just poking fun at us, I did think much like they do before I looked at the research data.

But they know of most of the data, but yet make the choice to take the low road. And use data that don't mean anything, or have been shown to be faulty anyways.

So I can not think of any other reason, other then they want to poke fun at us. I find it hard to beleave, they don't have the common sence to under stand this stuff.

 

[GoPC]

And what of the Ice Age "skeptics"... were they just lucky or did they believe a different way and turned out to be right?

It's a difference in belief grounded in who you believe and WHY. I believe that those most vocal about Global Warming are employing the same old, tried and true, died in the wool tactic they always use to promote their cause while demeaning their opponents.

If you don't support the relief of Global Warming, you must therefore support the continuation and increase of Global Warming. If one doesn't see it their way, then one revels in the cause of the issue. We've seen it here on these various threads.

I can simply disagree with the cause, effect and reality of Global Warming without being a contributor to it, can't I?

What we have here is simply a difference on opinion. Nothing more. Some of us believe that it is completely natural for the planet to earm and cool as it has done for many, many centuries. We believe that not every temp cycle is exactly the same as the last one. We believe that, like the Ice Age of the 1970's was used as a spearhead of political upheaval, the "Global Warming" issue is being widely used as a political weapon to demonize political oposition around the World and especially in the US. We believe that although we have freedom of speech, we have the responsibility to not spread speculation as fact. We have seen the press endlessly seek out sources to validate preconceived conclusions. We have seen the standards of what passes for truth and fact buried in a sea of "opinion", "expert analysis" and interpretation so crafted as it is difficult to separate what is being reported as FACT from what is being reported as concluded fact.

I don't believe for a moment that Global Warming protagonists are in the majority. I do believe they are the loudest and most active of the people involved in the debate. I don't see alot of activists marching through the streets trying to prove the sky is blue. It's when people are trying to shift the majority that they march, protest and publicize their cause as you are doing now.

I think the Majority is simply quiet and polite. As the Dems found out when the frumpy conservative majority came out and voted pushing Bush into the first true majority vote in MANY years and as they also found out that by supressing the conservative majority, they could win elections.

I think the conservative, for the most part, are cowards for NOT showing the majority that they hold. I despise them for choosing the take the moral "high ground" and say and do nothing for what they believe in... thus giving the minority a REAL SENSE that they are indeed... in the majority.

But as the last elections prove, the issues weren't WON by the perceived majority, they were ALLOWED by the inactive majority.

One Big Bully can rule a school ground of hundreds. Some will fall in line behind (while others quietly hide from) that bully and their dominance will project an image of majority. But if the true majority understood the power of their unity, they would shift the fate of that playing field.

Tas... I think you think to much of yourself. Belief in a cause is nothing more than that... BELIEF. From my perspective, YOU have taken the low road.

GoPC

 

[tas38]

Tas... I think you think to much of yourself. Belief in a cause is nothing more than that... BELIEF. From my perspective, YOU have taken the low road.

I believe in what I know, and see what humans are doing. Wipping out trees, land and waters with out thinking much about it. Resources have become the only thing that matters, and we are now planning how long it will take us to wipe them out. And acting as if we have no choice, but we do have choices on how we do it.

We do not own the earth, or it's resources we only are users of earth and it's resources. We need to think about the people that come after us, as they will have to use the same earth and resources. Everyone that has kids just about, want their kids to have it better then they did. Many people work all of their lifes to get them that, and that is the right thing to do and give our lifes much more meaning.

But yet we are willing to wipe out the resources, and damage the earth to who knows what degree. With out much thinking about, the people that must live with what we do. We should be trying to, find ways to leave the earth a better place for them. And leave them with as much resources, as we can and better ways to use the resources they will have.

Can we keep going as we are, no we can not as the resources will run out. And the earth will only take so much damage, till it fights back with things that we can not control. Think about this, what do you think the earth will be like. In 100 years from now, our kids may well still be alive with kids and even grand kids.

 

[GoPC]

I guess that is the fundamental difference between you and I.

I think the Earth will be fine.

GoPC

 

[Duckinla]

Humanity will rise from the ashes!

I would like to know from these people who have full confidence in the coming disaster of global warming: What are you doing to prepare for it?

 

[tas38]

I'm glad you ask, I'm buying a coal stoker to heat my home. I'm dumping my 92 olds V-6, and going to get a small 4 cyc car that is really good on gas. I have replaced most of my 100 watt lights, with 26 watt GE saver lights that work great.

On top of that, I will be buying a tankless hot water heater. I'll go from using $2500 to $3000 per year worth of oil, to burning 3 to 4 tons of coals that will cost me $600 to $800 per year to heat my home in the winter. And will keep a lot of CO2 coming from my home as well, infact the coal stoker will pay for it's self the first year.

I will cut in 1/2 the gas I must use, with the smaller auto I get as well. Saving me 1/2 the money, and my elec bill has went down some already with the 26 watt saver lights. I will not have to worry about oil prices so much then, I will save lots of money and will be helping the global warming problem. See I'm not so dumb, I done my research very well for sure.

My coal money will stay local, it will be nice knowing that money will not help terrorist kill us. The coal stoker is made right in the town I live in, and the coal is from right here as well it's all local. I'll only need gas but only 1/2 as much, the tankless hot water heater will also save me money and cut CO2 out put.

So you see, I'm going to save me lots and lots of money. And help the global warming problem as well, but I will ask you what you are going to do to help the global warming problem ?

 

[H2FC]

And what of the Ice Age "skeptics"... were they just lucky or did they believe a different way and turned out to be right?

It's a difference in belief grounded in who you believe and WHY. I believe that those most vocal about Global Warming are employing the same old, tried and true, died in the wool tactic they always use to promote their cause while demeaning their opponents.

If you don't support the relief of Global Warming, you must therefore support the continuation and increase of Global Warming. If one doesn't see it their way, then one revels in the cause of the issue. We've seen it here on these various threads.

I can simply disagree with the cause, effect and reality of Global Warming without being a contributor to it, can't I?

What we have here is simply a difference on opinion. Nothing more. Some of us believe that it is completely natural for the planet to earm and cool as it has done for many, many centuries. We believe that not every temp cycle is exactly the same as the last one. We believe that, like the Ice Age of the 1970's was used as a spearhead of political upheaval, the "Global Warming" issue is being widely used as a political weapon to demonize political oposition around the World and especially in the US. We believe that although we have freedom of speech, we have the responsibility to not spread speculation as fact. We have seen the press endlessly seek out sources to validate preconceived conclusions. We have seen the standards of what passes for truth and fact buried in a sea of "opinion", "expert analysis" and interpretation so crafted as it is difficult to separate what is being reported as FACT from what is being reported as concluded fact.

I don't believe for a moment that Global Warming protagonists are in the majority. I do believe they are the loudest and most active of the people involved in the debate. I don't see alot of activists marching through the streets trying to prove the sky is blue. It's when people are trying to shift the majority that they march, protest and publicize their cause as you are doing now.

I think the Majority is simply quiet and polite. As the Dems found out when the frumpy conservative majority came out and voted pushing Bush into the first true majority vote in MANY years and as they also found out that by supressing the conservative majority, they could win elections.

I think the conservative, for the most part, are cowards for NOT showing the majority that they hold. I despise them for choosing the take the moral "high ground" and say and do nothing for what they believe in... thus giving the minority a REAL SENSE that they are indeed... in the majority.

But as the last elections prove, the issues weren't WON by the perceived majority, they were ALLOWED by the inactive majority.

One Big Bully can rule a school ground of hundreds. Some will fall in line behind (while others quietly hide from) that bully and their dominance will project an image of majority. But if the true majority understood the power of their unity, they would shift the fate of that playing field.

Tas... I think you think to much of yourself. Belief in a cause is nothing more than that... BELIEF. From my perspective, YOU have taken the low road.

GoPC

In response to your continuing reference to the "ice age" theory in the 1970's I would point out to you that it had very little scientific support; it was the press reporting on a cooling trend from the mid 40's to the 70's. it was nothing like the warming threat of today where over 90% of our climate scientist are all in agreement. Please don't continue beating that drum...its BS.

I believe the real difference between the believers and the skeptics is that the believers have actually taken the time to read and study the whole issue where the skeptics are only reading and thinking about what the other skeptics and naysayers (mostly republicans) are writing on the web. From reading posts by GoPC and other skeptics here its very obvious they have little knowledge of the subject. Its also obvious that most of the junk they are posting can be found posted on the web in other places by other skeptics/naysayers. Its almost like its been cut and pasted here.

 

[Area52]

The long term trend (decades) is what is catching the attention of scientists. You can have extremes (months or years) within a long term trend which do not negate that trend. I live in the southern U.S. and I can see that the winters have definitely been getting warmer in the last twenty years. Unfortuately, I think many people are isolated from nature. They're more worried about missing the latest episode of "American Idol" than something that they think will not effect them, like "Global Warming."

Short of an emergency action, the only thing I think that will affect real change in regards to what we use for fuel and how it affects the enviornment will be how it hits the pocketbook. There may be some comfort in knowing that we will probably see $20 a gallon gasoline before we see a critical degradation of our atmosphere because it will force us to use less. Wait a minute! That means more "American Idol"! Have a warm, dry one.

 

[GoPC]

In demonstrating "very little knowledge" you through out a completely FALSE and misleading statistic of "over 90% or our climate scientist are in agreement" ???

You see... when you lie like this, your credibility goes out the window.

You need to qualify your statement... something like "90% of the scientists that believe Global Warming is real believe that Gloval Warming is real"

Seriously, I want to have a rational conversation with you but I just can't when you go about making stuff up like this while attacking everyone else that doesn't agree with you. We don't buy your pack of BS and therefore WE are idiots? Have you really READ what YOU have posted? We'd be idiots for blindly swallowing what you have to feed us.

On another note... saw a BAD movie last night with a very interesting concept. One that I have read a bit about in the past, but not quite put this way...

You've heard of Polar Shift, correct? That is, the tendancy for the Earth to "wobble" on it's axis a bit. Over many years, the magnetic North shifts a few degreed (up to 15ish) and exposes certain areas to the Sun that normally wouldn't be... areas like the Polar Caps. While simultaneously turning areas away from the sun... like the post equitorial regions.

This "wobble" has been well documented over the years to bring warmer temperatures to the Polar Regions and Cooler Temperatures to the newly shaded or less exposed post equitorial regions.

Sounds vaugely familiar since the arguments on these "bunny threads" (because they multiply like... well, bunnies) always seem to have one person shouting about melting polar caps while another person points at record snowfall in Dallas, Texas.

The story of THIS film, however, is that the Polar Shift goes WAY BEYOND the few degrees of "wobble" to a full 90 degree shift. Where the Magnetic North and South shift to the Equator and the traditional poles become equitorial.

Interesting thought... part of the theory rests in the idea that climate change and the shape, size and weight of the Polar caps physically change the "shape" of the Planet and thus if it changes enough, like an out of balance tire, it will change is physical rotation characteristics... and since the magnetic core is liquid, it stands to reason that it would reorientate itself as well.

Interesting stuff to think about. More speculation, theory and Sciece Fiction.

GoPC

 

[tas38]

You ask me what I was doing, to get ready and I told you but I ask you and you say nothing back about it.

Well I bet you are doing nothing, letting big oil rip you off and make global warming worst. I want to know what you are doing about it, I'm making some big changes because of it and SAVING LOTS OF MONEY!

So I ask you again, what are you doing to get ready for it other then saying it not real ?

I'm getting one of these coal stokers link below, this spring and by fall getting a smaller 4 cyc auto. And then a tankless hot water heater and saving lots of money, not having to worry about big oil rising the price or a new fat tax on it as much. And I'm helping slow down global warming, and helping stop funding terrorist. You said I'm taking the low road, but you are wrong just as wrong as you are about global warming. I can talk to my 10 year old girl about it, and I'll be show her how I'm taking the high road.

http://www.readingstove.com/

 

[DaveZilla]

For the past week, I've had to wear a COAT when I go OUTSIDE in CALIFORNIA!

There is no global warming.

 

[GoPC]

I'll be show her how I'm taking the high road.

http://www.readingstove.com/

Not to long ago, BIG COAL was the evil empire set solidly in the crosshairs of environmental naysayers.

Don't burn oil, burn COAL?

Is this more "anything but Bush" or do you think buring coal is BETTER for the environment than buring oil?

Just curious... I know time change and so do opinions but...

GoPC!