Stealing DNF's Lunch

[NamePopper.com]

Originally posted by Drewbert
>Then beaten to a pulp and left in the desert for vultures to pluck my eyes out.

I trust that if this WERE to eventuate, the MPEG would be made available to download from here for free?

Don't be crazy Drewbert. I know at least a few people who would pay top dollar to see Greg in that position.

No way it's going to be a FREE download.

I'm talking eBay - PRIME listing - HUGE reserve - BIG opening bid.

 

[Duke]

Originally posted by Drewbert
>Then beaten to a pulp and left in the desert for vultures to pluck my eyes out.

I trust that if this WERE to eventuate, the MPEG would be made available to download from here for free?

You have to be tripping Drewbert! That has Pay Per View written all over it. Hmmm....you know we like Greg and all but revenue is revenue. Be back in a few minutes, have to check the Thugs sections of my Rolodex and see if they have anything open this afternoon.

 

[NamePopper.com]

Pay Per View - of course!

The hell with eBay.......

 

[zapient]

As I enter this forum as only a classified newbie. I ask myself why do I bother to respond to such a political discussion. The reason is I too am exited about the business that we all share in one way or another. We all enter this forum for a few reasons. Some are to learn some are to help but our number one objective is to be successful at what we are trying to achieve! Now the questions here we have to ask our selves. What is this forums number one objective? I only hope that the answer would be a public meeting place for OPEN discussion. If we take away the right for open discussions about our services and products what kind of forum do we have? I can see the point that Duke is trying to make that if this forum has given to you then it would make sense to give some back. But is not responding to a post giving the user an option of the services available giving back to the forum? Yes we can all see there is an alternative motive to make money off of our services and products but what is wrong with that? People are going to purchase services and products from the business they feel most loyal to. So I would focus my energy on creating loyal members and not trying to stop a forum from being a forum!

Thanks,
Jon..

 

[Luc]

Can I please show DomainRetriever the way out.

He probably doesn't have a forum YET but he did announce here that
for those that signed up for his paid services they will be getting
$39.00 Snapbacks.

He has also been outspoken in his opposition to paid memberships
here. He has also continued to spam his services here.
He also has made thousands of dollars in profit directly attributable
to this site.

Ok. I’ll do this step by step so you don’t get lost Greg.

1. If you want to throw me out, feel free to do so. My IP
is 12.213.18.198, just click the ban button, it's easy. Look
back at the thread first, see how many of your members
want me thrown out as much as you do. Ehh? ANYONE
out of the 1,410 members? Hmm.

2. Regarding the Snaps thread.
(http://www.dnforum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=22400).

Did you honestly expect everyone to answer "Hey! DNF Will
have snaps for $39. You just wait!". Yeah, right. Besides, someone
else already replied (long before me) and told nameowner that DNF will
have cheap snaps. Duke, I agree with you all the way. Buying Snaps
on this board is an excellent form of support and the paid memberships
are a great incentive. You’re 100% right. As far as my intent to
bring down “DNF” by offering Snaps at the same price, that’s just
not an intelligent assumption. My $39 price was based on the markup level
and profit potential. At the time, I was not aware of anyone else
charging $39 and it seemed like something almost anyone can afford, even
on a mediocre domain. If Greg charged $37.50 for snaps, my price
would still be $39.

3. For the record, I had the SnapNames API long before
you or your programmers, Greg. It was intended to launch with
NameSniper a few months ago but at the time it was rather unstable.

I didn’t create the DomainPond Snaps to compete with you,
I created it because the FREE services offered on that site are costing
me a lot of money and I need to generate some revenue to at least
pay off for the servers. The $44 price for non members was
announced January 6, 2003. Feel free to visit DomainPond.com
and click on the January 6 News link on the main page to confirm.


4. You're mad because I suggested that MODS should get a
portion of the membership fees for the hard work they’ve
put in. You're also mad because many members agreed with
what I've said.

5. I “spam my services” here? By posting “Beta Testers Wanted”
in the “Related offers” category? Seems like I’m giving your
members a product they would otherwise have to pay for,
and they’re HAPPY. Come on Greg, you can come up with
better lies than that.

I know you don’t want me on this forum because I don’t
support your paid memberships system. You consider me
a threat to your business and you’ll attempt to discredit me.

Just hit the ban button and it’ll all be over. But maybe not??

Thanks for being a good audience everyone,
Luc L.

 

[DomeBase]

I can see clearer rules concerning not promoting other forums using DNF resources (I suggested some wording in another thread)

I would caution, however, that there is a slipperly slope if it begins to expand to "other services" which could include just about everyone and every site in the extreme (name sales, snaps, hosting, logo design, etc) as both DNF and other sites evolve

 

[Fearless]

Originally posted by DomainRetriever

You're mad because I suggested that MODS should get a
portion of the membership fees for the hard work they’ve
put in. You're also mad because many members agreed with
what I've said.

You should put your money where your mouth is. You have made thousands of dollars as a direct result of being a member here. I noticed you didn't deny that. I'm in the red. It's not too hard for you to ask the moderators what their Paypal addresses are and send them some of your profits. After all you created extra work for them by placing your spam in the wrong forums. I myself have had to move your spam to the proper forum 3 or 4 times, including the spam you mention in your #5.

 

[Luc]

Good point Greg. I'll pay YOUR moderators for YOUR decision
to move my posts to a different category.

Before I do however, I'd like to ask the moderators how much
I owe them for all the "trouble" I've caused over the past
eight months.

I'm sure they were super busy moving all ?? FOUR of my
threads. :laugh:

Luc L.

 

[Fearless]

Originally posted by DomainRetriever


Before I do however, I'd like to ask the moderators how much
I owe them for all the "trouble" I've caused over the past
eight months.

Where are your convictions? It shouldn't matter how much work you caused them. Your concern is that they should be paid. Pay up.

 

[Luc]

You're missing the point Greg.

They're YOUR employees, they take orders from YOU and
they run this forum according to how YOU want it.

By paying a MEMBERSHIP fee to you, I pay the boss who
distributes a portion of his profits to the employees (moderators).

In bulk, these SMALL membership fees could add up to a
fair dollar amount and could be shared amongst those who
moderate and those who own. As stated before in different
thread, that is the only reason I'd be willing to pay $50
or more on an annual basis and be quite satisfied with
the concept.

To summarize. I'm not going to pay your employees, that's
not my job. If you decide to take in profits from memberships,
I only think it's fair that you share it with the people that
helped you achieve these profits in the first place.

Luc L.

 

[Fearless]

Originally posted by DomainRetriever
You're missing the point Greg.

You're missing the point Luc. Even with paid memberships I'm in the hole. You on the other hand have made thousands of dollars as a direct result of being a member here. You hang your hat on opposition to membership fees because Mods should be paid.

I'm saying for someone who has so immensely benefited from a membership here, you should step up to the plate and pay those moderators. It shouldn't matter that it's my site. What should matter is it's your cause and YOU need to give something back.

 

[Luc]

Even with paid memberships I'm in the hole

In the hole? The only thing I see costing you any money
is the auction system. Hosting for this place shouldn't cost
you more than $150/month. I know my banners ALONE
paid that, and they were only on your site for a week and
a half.

Now if I multiply that by the number of sponsors you've
got and by the amount of time they've been advertising for....
well, I think you get the idea.

Greg. I honestly don't want to go into your DNF financial
situation because it's NONE of my business. All I know is that
you're making pretty decent money as it is right now and that
is ALL I need to know.

Now as far as me "Giving Back" to the community, I'm doing
just that. I've selected DNF over DomainState to distribute
free Domain-Catcher Beta versions. Usually, I only allow
my previous clients to receive access to these products.

I don't distribute error-filled software. DC went through
a week of beta testing before I released an official beta
to the DNF community. Notice the responses I've received.
Everyone who got the beta (all together over 25 members)
will receive free support and upgrades for life. Everyone is
happy. Even those who did not register in time got in on
the deal. Your members received something for FREE just
because they belong to THIS community.

Honestly, when I made that thread I THOUGHT I WAS giving back
to the community. Unfortunately, you thought it was spam.

Luc L.

 

[ReignDomain]

Don't touch DomainRetriever.

 

[Fearless]

Originally posted by DomainRetriever


In the hole? The only thing I see costing you any money
is the auction system. Hosting for this place shouldn't cost
you more than $150/month. I know my banners ALONE
paid that, and they were only on your site for a week and
a half.

It was $120 you spent. You quit advertising because spamming the forums was much more effective and cheaper (free).

You show me your books. I'll show you mine.

 

[Luc]

You show me your books. I'll show you mine.

Greg. I honestly don't want to go into your DNF financial

You quit advertising because spamming the forums was much more effective and cheaper

Yes, ever since I stopped advertising I've been spamming non
stop. You'll notice this as you browse the board.
In fact, the server outage a few days ago was probably caused
by my DR spam. Yeah. It's that bad. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

I needed a good laugh before I went to bed. Thanks Greg!
Luc L.

 

[Fearless]

This is like a ping-pong match. :laugh:

 

[Nexus]

I don't think DomainRetriever was intentionally *stealing* DNF's lunch (although I admit it is a tough thing). If I'd seen any offer myself (outside of DNF), I'd probably have mentioned it too in the thread in question (trying to be helpful). That's what the member was requesting.

Someone requested it earlier and I got some $49 SnapBack's from that promotion at the time. It would be different if the thread was about DNF SnapBacks *COMING SOON*, and someone came in and started posting other offers elsewhere.

Only the admin/mods can comment on having to keep moving DT threads I guess. I know that can be really annoying.

I do have to say that if Greg says he's "in the hole", offhand I can believe it (success story aside). I equally hate hearing how MUCH it COULD cost to RUN this service (phrased as a complaint), as I do hearing how LITTLE it COULD BE to run the service (phrased as an complaint in guesswork.) The first seems to be a guilt-trip type of manipulation. That said, having worked on many websites, I know most development doesn't get seen, and if you're not your own programmer, its even more expensive.

Now that membership is "paid", and has its priviledges, the promotions are in competition with other products and services offering similar incentives. That's the only reason why this is even an issue!

That's tough stuff. Like DomeBase noted though, where are you supposed to draw the line? All the other commentary is just rifling through each other's business practices ISO criminal offenses.

A member asked where he could find discounted SnapBack subscriptions. Does forum discussion now get CURBED to only faciliate DNF's business interests? If that is the case, I have to say I will become concerned.

Maybe I'm missing the point though. This could be part of the plan, and I'm only now getting it. When I used to work for SmarterKids.com (kids educational toys and games), we tossed around the idea of creating a forum for parents. In fact, someone who'd registered SmartKids.com mimicked our logo, and set up a forum that had started gathering a lot of posting parents. The idea was quickly NIXED however, because of the fact that many of the conversations from visitors could easily lead people AWAY from the website. Verisign/NetSol used to have a mailing list I think that got shut down because people were using it to bash their service after a while.

Forums can inherently encompass commentary on competing business of all types. Its a slippery slope for people to start limiting the available field of discussion (inside of the normal community building guidelines). At the same time, open-ended talk can be BAD for business. I can see AQHost voiced some concerns at the end of this thread that really put a fine point on it:
http://www.dnforum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=20747&perpage=20&highlight=snapback&pagenumber=2

Without assuming its "common sense", if this is the way it is, I'd like to see a list of advertising practices and products that DNF officially frowns upon or views as "competitive". Would certainly clear things up.

~ Nexus

 

[DomeBase]

Originally posted by Nexus
I'd like to see a list of advertising practices and products that DNF officially frowns upon or views as "competitive". Would certainly clear things up.

~ Nexus

some proposals...

http://www.dnforum.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=182062#post182062

...although right now there seems to be more interest in getting mad at each other when undefined lines are crossed than in developing a consensus/guidelines concerning where those lines are

 

[David G]

Originally posted by Duke ...Greg put up the money to buy the place, put up the money to make tremendous improvements (state of the art chat, live auctions, etc), put in the endless hours to pull it all together and continues to put in endless hours to keep it running. Despite this, for some reason you have this whole cadre of neo-communists who don't think he is entitled to make anything from his efforts. I would like each one of them to post here and tell us what jobs they currently work at without pay...

Great thoughts Duke, personally I am glad I ended up losing buying this site last Sept to Greg because based on the hrs needed online here I would be working for a few pennies an hr., even with the surprisingly good success of paid memberships.

At least Greg has now recouped initial costs relatively quickly but likely got nothing for the time he has put in here working online - I would guess at least 100 hrs a week, likely approx' 2000 to 3000 hrs time.

Few here would labor that many hrs for the revenue achieved thus far, that's why I am glad I ended up not buying DNF in retrospect, though it has great value as far as traffic and membership and ad potential go. Those are things I would value very highly and may make it all worthwhile in the long run. Keep up the good work Greg and the Mod's.

 

[Duke]

Originally posted by RealNames
personally I am glad I ended up losing buying this site last Sept to Greg because based on the hrs needed online here I would be working for a few pennies an hr., even with the surprisingly good success of paid memberships.

...And just think of the money you saved on canker sore medication!