The names have been changed to protect the innocent.....and NamePros being unfair???

[humbug1s1k]

sorry to hear you had this issue. I am a mod there now but had a "similar" sitaution several years ago when my brother was visiting and I showed him NP and he signed up..... the new account was of course also flagged as a dupe and we were both (or at least he was) contacted about the issue. We quickly clarified the situation and then it was fine... but of course the stipulation was made to stay out of each others sales threads to avoid any "confusion" etc.

Although I can understand your frustration, and to a certain degree feeling of being offended, quite frankly the situation could have been avoided in a FEW ways.

First, since the window of opportunity was already missed to sell it directly to your dad since he apparently wasn't aware of/interested in the domain until you explained the situation after the non-paying bidder got in on the second auction, the most TRANSPARENT thing to have done was to have him just WATCH the auction and, after it was over, send a PM to the winner to the effect "I missed out on that auction unfortunately but find the domain of interest.... would you be interested in a quick flip?".... given its original auction price of $8, chances are the second auction would not have been much better and, if your father was truly interested in it, ponying up 2X plus the winning price would not have broke the bank and avoided his direct involvement with any of your transactions.

Second, if he just wanted to be involved in the auction to, if nothing else, ensure that the original nonpayer didn't win/screw up the auction again, he could have just bid to a price he was comfortable with AFTER being proactive and reaching out to a moderator for that section or admin explaining that he is related to you but independently interested in the domain and would like to bid IF he received the green light.

It would have been better if there been a window of time for someone to review the flagged accounts and reach out for clarification BEFORE they saw what is understandably suspicious activity (ie bidding on an auction associated with another account using the same ip) and reached the logical conclusion of a dupe account and shill bidding.

You know who you are, and who your father is, but you cannot realistically expect someone that has nothing more than numbers, online evidence and your ACTIONS to go on to turn the other way and "assume" that things are indeed legitimate. Again, can understand your frustration and feeling of being judged/misunderstood.... but you certainly did not make it easy to see the situation otherwise.

I would recommend reaching out to Eric, if you wish to be a part of NP after this situation that is, and work towards clarifying the circumstances and what is appropriate behavior going forward.

And, on a different note, reading over the replies between your dad and Eric, I am a little more confused regarding how the original auction "ended".... the emails made it sound like the auction was rendered null and void for some reason (rather than just extended) due to technical difficulties on the site, whereas your original post makes it sound like there was a clear winner that did NOT pay despite your repeated PM's looking to close the deal...... as a member and mod there I can only say that IF it was the latter, regardless of the price, it IS a "big deal" to at least bring to our attention on (even if you don't feel it warrants a negative TR etc) so that we can keep tabs on that member in case a pattern emerges.

take care and hope the situation is sorted out as good as possible. SP

Thank you for your post.....

It is a situation that has got out of hand due to misunderstanding, bad business etiquette, a father looking out for his now grown up son (having 2 children myself I suppose that never goes away.......I'm 37, but my father still considers me a child.....!!) and me losing my temper.

Ultimately as stated I enjoyed being a part of Namepros but the back and forth between eric and my father clearly insinuates that he feels my father and I are one person......and lying!

As far as why the first auction was never completed I honestly cant remember what happened, apart from the fact I have a PM in my sent messages showing that I sent the original bidder of the 1st auction a message asking him to pay $8 for the winning bid.....this was never replied to. I never followed it up because it was for $8 and Im not the sort of person to get someone in trouble, complain for $8, so I left it until such time that I realised the domain was coming to its expiry and you know the rest......

Eric hasnt replied to any of my messages, only the ones posted here that my father sent yesterday.........I've sent about 5, on the site and not had a response to any of them.....

I am due to hand the domain over to my father on Monday, after payment is made, and he will renew it and keep it........whether he will realistically get round to doing something with it is another matter......I have to go through with this as this is what I have told Eric will be happening and I've got no doubt he will check the whois. I appreciate the offer, and would like to sell to someone who will do something with it as I think it is a brandable domain and worth more than floating about cyberspace (otherwise I wouldnt have regged in the first place), but I have stated that I am an honest person throughout and I dont want to think that I am trying to take advantage of a situation......

Again I appreciate your words, I understand your comments, and would appreciate it if you are able to pass my thoughts expressed here to Eric. More as I feel my messages have just been ignored, I think this might be because he still feels we are one and the same........I can assure we are not.

Anyway, many thanks, and as much as I would love to have my profile back at Namepros, the damage this has done to my own integrity is a little annoying......also I did have another auction running that was going quite well.......if you can call up to $25 quite well.........at least it is for a $1 start on NP, Lol.....

Anyway, again thank you

Jason

 

[humbug1s1k]

The whole thing is so simple and I don't understand why you are making noises as you are innocent.

You clearly violated the rules and we would do the same thing here.

You two were banned because of shill bidding - hence the auction was void.

Nothing else needed to be discussed. It's all Black and White so stop whining.

Im not whining

Im asking people to comment on a situation which I feel is unjust

Again only one person has mentioned the original winner of an auction who failed to pay, then feigned interest to win an auction for cheaper.

As far as shill bidding, the second auction never finished, and I can assure you that my father was out to win the auction, he wasnt bidding to pump it up he was bidding to win the domain, whether that was for $1, or $100,000......but as the auction was closed before this happened how can it be proved ir disproved......I just dont like being called a liar, and Im certainly not going to just sit around and let someone state things that are not true about me or my father! Would you?

 

[randomo]

If I were a NamePros admin, I wouldn't reply to your PMs either, after receiving your father's long angry messages about suing them for libel over this obvious case of shill bidding.

You say nobody is mentioning the other bidder. OK, from what you say it sounds like he acted like a jerk, and you should have left him negative feedback.

But back to you: if you were a forum admin, saw an auction bid coming from the same IP address as the domain owner, and then got threatened with a lawsuit for calling it shill bidding ... would you be in a hurry to apologize to anyone?

 

[humbug1s1k]

My father was angry because as you can read he is a 60 something business man who has acted in a business and honest manner his whole life......he acted in the way he did because he felt being accused of lying and cheating when he was purely trying to buy the domain was uncalled for.

I am upset that no one has bothered to try and discuss the matter with me.........I can fully understand what it looks like, Im not stupid, but personally I work on innocent until proven guilty, therefore you find out the facts before banning, insulting, calling someone out.......

Instead of just banning me, stop the auction and get an admin to message me to discuss their issue.....that to me would be the sensible thing to do......

When I managed a team at work, if I just sacked people every time I saw something happen that I felt wasnt right, I wouldnt have had a team....talk to people, find out the facts first......but how can I discuss it if my messages are ignored....

 

[Eric_Lyon]

Since this case was made public by the party them self, I'll provide the response I recently sent to them below.

Thanks for contacting us, As I pointed out to the other individual, both accounts participating in the same auction originated from the same IP address (as seen below):

86.156.132.152 - account: rgh123 - 2012-10-25 04:10:23
86.156.132.152 - account: humug1s1k - 2012-10-24 09:20:17

Stating that both accounts accessed NamePros from the same IP & or Same computer in no way says you are both the same person. However, it does clearly show that a form of shill bidding took place in the auction. Here's the definition of shill bidding: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shill (Please take note to the parts where it says a friend or someone that the seller knows bids on the item for sale)

Furthermore, Both yourself and your father agreed to the NamePros Terms of Use when you signed up. It happens that those same terms of use you both agreed to prohibits shill bidding type activities.

Quote: Members shall not practice shill bidding in any auction, whether on their own auctions or those belonging to an associate.
​

Quote:Shill bidding, the practice of artificially inflating bid prices on your own or a partner's auction, may result in termination of your account.

​

If there was ever any question about the TOS you both agreed to, you should have contacted a staff member to explain your situation prior to engaging in acts that's violate the rules. For the protection of all our community members, when events like this are reported to us, we have to take every shill bidding situation very seriously.

We do sincerely wish you and your father the best of luck in domaining and hope that in the future, you read over a communities TOS / Rules more carefully prior to engaging in such acts, as you may find the end result to be same and they also close down your account(s).

Eric Lyon
NamePros Team

 

[humbug1s1k]

and my reply:

And your thoughts on xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx(xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx) first not bidding and then his rather unethical business approach, am I to take that as Namepros acceptance of such practice? Or has some reproach been made on your behalf.

It does appear now that you have changed your immediate issue, seeing as you initially didnt seem concerned that my father had bid, but that my father was myself. You have now changed your wording, at least I am pleased you accept my fathers existence, something which Im sure he would be grateful for as well, seeing as he is very much alive.

I am also now pleased and I thank you for your rather late reply.

I, as I sure you can understand feel very agrieved at the situation that due to others behaviour didnt need to come about, however it has happened. My time at Namepros was during its shortlived span (approx. 2/3 yrs) was enjoyable and you have a decent forum, I just dont think you have dealt with this situation to the best of your ability.

Regards

Jason Guest

For the record, as has been stated many many times, if shill bidding is the act of inflating ones own auction for gain then we havent shill bid, as my father was bidding to win the domain!



I think points have been made, I am satisfied that my father exists, as is he. I am also satisfied that I have not entered into shill bidding as my father was bidding to win. I am concerned that bad business practice is allowed to continue at Namepros, a shame as it is a decent forum, and I am also convinced that no one cares about my concerns......all these things are a given. I also wish Eric all the best, and I thank you for finally responding......

 

[Eric_Lyon]

If you have a situation with another member, we advise you use the report feature so that NamePros staff can look into the matter. Did you report (member name) at the time of the incident? Can you tell me which staff member was assisting you at the time so I can look into this matter?

(Note: Please either use the private messaging system here, NamePros email, or NamePros accounts closed forum to reply to my questions as to keep the other members details confidential) Thanks.

Eric Lyon
NamePros Team

 

[Gerry]

Im not whining

Im asking people to comment on a situation which I feel is unjust

Again only one person has mentioned the original winner of an auction who failed to pay, then feigned interest to win an auction for cheaper.

Sus him, okay? Please take him to court. As such, you will need to provide evidence. And I am sure you can provide evidence that he did not pay. End of story.

Or, wait...its not end of story. Why? Because he get's to provide his evidence of why he did not pay. Two pieces of evidence is the auction thread at NP and this thread on DNF.

Then you can provide counter evidence showing that your dad (ahem) was bidding and just happened to be bidding from the same place you were at, but you did not know your dad was bidding and he did not know he was in an auction of his son's domain name. And, your dad can provide a statement that he did not know he was bidding on your domain and you can provide a statement saying you did not know he was bidding. And that is your evidence that this was a legit auction? That is your evidence against the person who did not pay?

Bottom line, as you stated, how can it be proved ir disproved? It can't. You can not prove that it was a legit auction. And, you can not disprove that it was not shill bidding. Both of those facts rest solely on you. You can not prove it; and you can not disprove it.

Obviously, no one else needs to prove anything when you are in that place.

 

[humbug1s1k]

I dont think you totally understand what went on, I knew my father was bidding but it was not to bid up the auction it was to win the domain for two reasons, one because the other chap had acted irresponsibly and the other reason was to have the domainm either way he was bidding to win. As far as a situation in court where something cant be proved either way it would then fall onto other evidence, such as my profile on Namepros which shows 20/30/40 (I cant honestly remember) 100% sales with happy customers, some rep points for a few comments on threads and a fairly decent participation rate for a relative newcomer to the domain industry.

Namepros also has my PM's to show that in the first auction I sent a message to the other winning bidder to ask for payment as the winning bidder, something they never replied to.....that it there in the system for them to read......

Look ultimately I know what type of person I am and I felt angered that someone should act in the way they did.......I dont act like that in business......as far as my father, he was angered at it being insinuated that he was a liar.......he is not.

Anyway, kids a calling, must dash...

 

[humbug1s1k]

Sus him, okay? Please take him to court. As such, you will need to provide evidence. And I am sure you can provide evidence that he did not pay. End of story.

Or, wait...its not end of story. Why? Because he get's to provide his evidence of why he did not pay. Two pieces of evidence is the auction thread at NP and this thread on DNF.

Then you can provide counter evidence showing that your dad (ahem) was bidding and just happened to be bidding from the same place you were at, but you did not know your dad was bidding and he did not know he was in an auction of his son's domain name. And, your dad can provide a statement that he did not know he was bidding on your domain and you can provide a statement saying you did not know he was bidding. And that is your evidence that this was a legit auction? That is your evidence against the person who did not pay?

Bottom line, as you stated, how can it be proved ir disproved? It can't. You can not prove that it was a legit auction. And, you can not disprove that it was not shill bidding. Both of those facts rest solely on you. You can not prove it; and you can not disprove it.

Obviously, no one else needs to prove anything when you are in that place.

Sorry just reread your post, I get what you think now.....you do realise there was 2 auctions involved here.....the first one where the chap didnt pay after winning, and not replying to the PM, and then a few months later after I contacted them he said he wasnt interested in buying it for the price he won, but then I put it up for auction he then bid on it again.....?? That in short is what happened.....

 

[slimpickins]

i am starting to lose sympathy with you on this.... the "deadbeat buyer" as you are now shifting the focus, has left you positive TR on NP a total of SIX times (most recently earlier this month!) so it seems odd that

As far as why the first auction was never completed I honestly cant remember what happened

.... the two of you seemed to maintain an ongoing and positive transaction history after this UNPAID for auction so it is odd that this auction, which LOOKS to have ended as it should (ie high bidder, clock ran out and you named the winner and closed the thread) would somehow just "be forgotten", until now, and the buyer is now the "problem" here, although you had no problem finalizing deals on other domains despite them not paying for this.... really puzzling.

just would have been great if your dad had joined, stayed out of the auction, and bought it from the winner to avoid the whole fiasco to begin with, but am still not seeing the sense in you now making the "point" of all this being how NP did not handle a non-paying buyer... kind of hard if you did not report the non-payment to begin with, issue negative itrader but rather kept on doing deals with them after the "forgotten" auction......

 

[Johnn]

The whole thread is about $8!!!!!!!

 

[humbug1s1k]

The whole thread is about $8!!!!!!!

LOL....I know


As far as this is concerned:

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i am starting to lose sympathy with you on this.... the "deadbeat buyer" as you are now shifting the focus, has left you positive TR on NP a total of SIX times (most recently earlier this month!) so it seems odd that As far as why the first auction was never completed I honestly cant remember what happened



.... the two of you seemed to maintain an ongoing and positive transaction history after this UNPAID for auction so it is odd that this auction, which LOOKS to have ended as it should (ie high bidder, clock ran out and you named the winner and closed the thread) would somehow just "be forgotten", until now, and the buyer is now the "problem" here, although you had no problem finalizing deals on other domains despite them not paying for this.... really puzzling.

just would have been great if your dad had joined, stayed out of the auction, and bought it from the winner to avoid the whole fiasco to begin with, but am still not seeing the sense in you now making the "point" of all this being how NP did not handle a non-paying buyer... kind of hard if you did not report the non-payment to begin with, issue negative itrader but rather kept on doing deals with them after the "forgotten" auction......

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I am not the kind of person to report someone for reneging on an $8 auction which is why that positive transaction history continued!!!!!!!

What does upset me in this situation is when I reoffer that domain to the individual for them to make the comment that they dont want the domain now because it is too close to the expiry date.......and then bid on the auction!?!?!?!?!?!?!? Comprendez?????

I dont think that it is unreasonable to be slightly annoyed with someone under those circumstances, do you??

Im not looking for sympathy, I was merely asking for comments as I am still under the immpression that I have been hard done to, and having discussed this with a number of other people face to face they also understand my concern and have reassured me that I am not being unreasonable.....

Hey Ho, as has been stated this is all for $8, or not as that has not been paid yet???? It is the principle though.........

Have fun....

 

[Johnn]

The issue was not happened here on DNF.

Case closed.