To all anti-war protestors

[izoot]

Well Beatz..I can appreciate the these images are from a reputable news affiliate ....but take for instance the issue of Mohammad Dura..the child and father that were shot in in Israel. All the "reputable" news sources published images and footage of this shooting blaming the Israelis...

It was later proved through investigation that there was no way the shooter could have been IDF. The angles were all wrong....the shots came from the direction that the palestinians were in. Most likely the deaths were due to poor marksmenship of a fatah or jihad shooter....but it made great anti-israeli propaganda...Or the so called massacre in Jenin..which was also proven to have never happened ( 500 civilians dead )....all reproted by "reputable" news agencies... Pictures are very good at making people emote...thats because most people don't read or look beyond those images...

I don't want to see anyone die but there is a war on ... people die in wars.
We may disagree on whether the war should be...but it is a reality that is happening right now. And we need al the information not just a picture and a caption.

And Nameslave...sorry to see you chose to support terrorists and their actions...These animales are guilty and got and will get what they deserve.
Things change when you murder and terrorize innocent people...

How much respect do these animals have for fairness when they blow up a bus of school children??? But then I guess its not your children being murdered...how bought putting some of your energy in to speaking out about that??? Apologist....

 

[Larry]

again with the disinformation - of course i know we are a member....we just don't answer to them.

beatz" And to claim all those protesters would protest because " they think it's cool, their friends are doing it, they have always protested, etc." must be the most saddest try to undermine what's going on."


Once again your emotions are getting the best of you. Read the post and then try to respond in an intelligent manner.

 

[beatz]

Larry you don't really think you stating those protesters motivations was really intelligent, do you?

 

[Anthony Ng]

Originally posted by sornman


Ok, after reading through this all, I only wanted to lay out a comment on this little passage and leave it at that. The US tried the above during WWII, but it did't work as it was attacked. Despite requests from our allies, the US tried to stay out. However, as a superpower, I believe we should have stepped in previous to Pearl Harbor, because they were our allies. The 'hands-off' approach does not work when you are a superpower and people rely on that strength.

I'm just curious why so many Americans feel that way. Again, not intended to flame (you're an administrator anyway), but you should check out the history books more often.

First off, the U.S. was NOT a superpower before the WWII. They then thought that a closed door policy was in their best interest.

The U.S. entered the war PARTLY (not totally) because of Pearl Habor, and also because of the changing domestic economic landscape (national corporations were becoming MULTInational corporations). You don't HELP your allies in international politics, everything is a trade-off.

By the way, the U.K. WAS a superpower before the WWII, and the U.S. is definitely going after that path because of a second-rate leadership.

 

[beatz]

Izoot - do you remember the thing with the iraqi girl that stood in front of the UN claimed she was a nurse or something and that she had witnessed how Iraqi soldiers would have taken newborn babies out of their boxes and throwed them on the floor?

Well, as later turned out she was the daughter of some kuweit ambassador and the whole story was fake, including fake video footage.

The reason for doing so was to force public opinion towards the sanctions UN layed on Iraq later.

The sad thing is, although that story had been proved to be fake, still up to this day these baby images stick in peoples heads and indeed it helped to lay the sanctions.

Sanctions that helped to let 1m iraqi people die of hunger.

Up to this day Iraq is allowed to import only a very small amount of chlorine (which could help to clean polluted drinking water) because it could be used "to build weapons"....

 

[Larry]

beatz..slow down and try again. the sentence structure in that last statement is a little confusing. are you trying to ask me if i believe that my statement about why some people protest is true?

if thats your question...yes is the answer.

it's simply a fact that many people want to be a part of something that gives THEM purpose and makes them feel like they are doing somehting of value.

the number of people protesting is relatively small and if you believe that they are all actually interested in stopping a war you are just clearly delusional.

 

[Anthony Ng]

Originally posted by izoot
And Nameslave...sorry to see you chose to support terrorists and their actions...These animales are guilty and got and will get what they deserve.
Things change when you murder and terrorize innocent people...

How much respect do these animals have for fairness when they blow up a bus of school children??? But then I guess its not your children being murdered...how bought putting some of your energy in to speaking out about that??? Apologist....

Would you mind sharing HOW you know those detained as "enemy combatants" DID those terrible things in the first place? The whole British common law tradition lies on the foundation that everyone is innocent before he or she is found guilty by the court, isn't it?

 

[beatz]

Originally posted by Larry
the number of people protesting is relatively small and if you believe that they are all actually interested in stopping a war you are just clearly delusional.

LOL, you're ripping yourself apart, Larry.

So you really think they protest because "everybody does it" or because "it's fun" or whatever but not because they wanna stop the war?

That's ridiculous.

And you call those protesters numbers "small"?

I wasn't just stating US protest numbers ( and i would not call 100K people on a saturday in NYC 'small' really) but i was talking about protesters *around the globe*.

Geez i don't think i even have to comment on that...it's embarassing.

 

[Larry]

it is beatz...for you because once again you have failed to read or understand my post.

either way you come off looking like a complete idiot.

if you want to debate at least respond to my replies instead of making up lies as you go.

 

[beatz]

Uh you're presenting yourself here as the idiot.

I *am* responding to your posts, but what can i say to somebody that thinks millions of protesters only protest because of fun or because their friends are doing it but not because they wanna stop the war?

I mean...really.

 

[Larry]

you see beatz... the great thing about a message board is all the information is there for you to go abck and read again.

the numbers you quoted were global in nature..and my response was - in relation to the world population that is a small number.

i said not ALL protestors are doing this for altruistic reasons.


the goal here is to READ and respond...not make up lies and tell half truths like you have been doing

 

[Larry]

well, MOST of the information is available to go back and read...


I see you have started to edit your posts on this page.


Good idea.

 

[beatz]

Sure Dude, sure...i'm not making anything up.

And the numbers i quoted were very specific.

And what is it supposed to prove that those numbers are small in comparison to world's population?

Maybe you think that everybody that is *not* protesting by marching is pro war?!

See, i'm totally against this war, still i haven't joined a protest march yet.

To compare the numbers of protesters with world population is silly - makes more sense to compare number of past protests with this one..will show you these are the highest protest numbers against a war ever.

 

[beatz]

Larry i didn't edit anything out - i just *added* information like the thing about the sanctions.

Don't try your lies on me - won't work.

But maybe you wanna let me and the others know what *exactly* it is that i am accused of having edited to my favor as your post suggests?

 

[Larry]

Yeah beatz...that's what you were doing

 

[britishangel]

no one has precise figures on who is for war because people who are don't disband around the world and whine about it in the streets at least not to the degree that protestors do. The point is that no one has exact figures and that's that. It doesn't really matter if you protest the war or not because it's started and damage has been done so what do you attempt to prove? It's too late to stop it and even if it wasn't as an individual section of the population are a couple hundred thousand protestors really going to be able to stop a war, they can hardly stop trees from being cut down.

PEACE

 

[Anthony Ng]

Originally posted by britishangel
they can hardly stop trees from being cut down.

Okay, my specialization.

There are various ways to get your platforms across or even worked out:

1. You can start a military uprising;
2. Or you might be a part of the parlimentary process (if there's one) by either being a politician yourself or lobbying respective politicians;
3. Alternatively, you may also take it outside, to the street. This either works via the media (one of the pillars of policy "games") or helps strategically and supplementarily those effort from "within" (#2 above).

Remember how women were finally recognized as "persons" and African-Americans got their rights to vote?

 

[izoot]

Originally posted by nameslave

Would you mind sharing HOW you know those detained as "enemy combatants" DID those terrible things in the first place? The whole British common law tradition lies on the foundation that everyone is innocent before he or she is found guilty by the court, isn't it?

Well NS...I don't know first hand...What I do know is that these people were fighting side by side with Al queda and the Taliban and they weren't out on the battlefields picking flowers. 9-11 and the following issues have cause things to be handled in different manners than in the past. Its not a perfect system by any means...but these people are enemy combatants and supporters of terrorists and will be treated as such. It must suck pretty bad to be imprisioned...but taking into account they put themselves in the positions themselves...you get what you ask for. Heres an old adage you mom might have said to you...." You are judged by the friends you keep".

Sad to see someone so strongly support terrorists and enemy combatants and the rights you think they should have....maybe if they showed the same sense or "fair play" for those they murdered, things would be different.

One hopes that terrorism doesn't strike close to you...it will make such a hypocrite of you when you are calling for their blood.

You make things sound so simple when its something thats not affecting you.

 

[ctn]

i love to here anti-war people because that tells me one thing.War works.Wars can make you free.If we would have never had wars , comments like i'm seeing now couldn't be made.

Kinda like in iraq,you would have to be brain washed by saddam tv saddam radio etc..and if you did make comments against your country you would have your tongue cut out and nailed to a wall like saddam does.So keep them anti-war statements coming

As for the pictures with the white flag,kinda reminds me of the the idiots in america that stand in the street with a gun wanting to comit suicide but hopes the police will do it so they want have a guilty conscience before they die.Then they will show it on saddam tv as a last resort of brain washing there people's mind in supporting saddam's regim before it is totally destroyed
I would like to see the pictures of them standing up waving that flag before they got shot.Any of them pictures floating around anywhere.
Did someone stick that flag in there before they took the picture,or was they firing a gun at someone and just thought they might carry there flag with them just incase they got tired and decided to give up.You come up with these top secret pictures and only show the after i want to see the before pictures to
Just found this.This may be the answer to the flag pictures
Allies Hit Setbacks Heading for Baghdad
By CALVIN WOODWARD
Allied forces confronted a shaken but combative foe in their advance through southern Iraq on Sunday, suffering more combat deaths and the first U.S. prisoners of war. They declared the invasion on target but it was increasingly bloody for the coalition.

Despite a day of dispiriting developments, the U.S.-British coalition fought to within 100 miles of Baghdad and tended to a growing northern front.


Allied soldiers came under attack in a series of ruses, U.S. officials said, with one group of Iraqis waving the white flag of surrender, then opening up with artillery fire; another group appearing to welcome coalition troops but then attacking them.

Full story here
http://channels.netscape.com/ns/new...164201759.htm&sc=1107&photoid=20030323IRQ814D

 

[sornman]

Originally posted by nameslave

The U.S. entered the war PARTLY (not totally) because of Pearl Habor, and also because of the changing domestic economic landscape (national corporations were becoming MULTInational corporations). You don't HELP your allies in international politics, everything is a trade-off.

Sorry, I should have just left it at 'The US tried to stay out of WWII.'

With war, everyone has an agenda. If the US was invaded, I would hope Canada would help the US. Why? The trade between the US and Canada, and the neighboring border, etc. The same is true if someone invaded Canada. The US would help because of trade (mmm, Matrox video cards ) and there is noone we would rather share a border with.

As for the 'Administrator' title, it is simply there as I work for Greg and need to be able to get into the vB administration section. But as far as that goes, in my opinion Mods and Admins *should* be thought of as regular members. They need to be able to post their opinions as well, even if people aren't going to agree with them. Especially on this topic. Only when things begin to get really out of hand do the Mods and Admins need to step in to control. but other than that, I believe everyone is entitled to their opinion.

As for my on the issue of this war, heh, I haven't stated one. But as was the original message of this thread, I do support the US/UK/Austrailian troops that are out there protecting what we believe in, even if I don't agree on how everything reached this point.