To all pro-war advocates

[dvdrip]

Saddam holds them all together. Take him out and they all try to kill each other!

They are are not going to spent their money. They are spending US people's money to pay the weapon factories that pay them to have the war. Most of the white house is a consultant for a weapon factory including the one that resigned.
Also a lot of weapons have expiration dates.

Afghanistan was different. There was a government before the taliban and they were trying to get back in power.

Iraq has never had a democratic government.

Why use your own expensive oil when it is free around the corner?

Originally posted by Beachie
Yes, but taking out Saddam is only a fraction of the problem. You've got to take out his sons, and his deluded ministers too. The coalition must remove the Ba'ath party's credibility.
I don't believe they've said that at all.
Maybe they could sell them to Iraq Your reasoning is quite strange - They will have to spend money to replace them, so they're not going to blow them up for the sake of it.
OK, so why didn't the US do this in Afghanistan? It has large, untapped oil, gas and mineral reserves, and now has a non-US government: Afghan Government

What the green, hippy tree-huggers neglect to tell you is that the US and UK have their own oil and gas reserves, as well as importing from South America, Kuwait etc. They don't *need* Iraq. Russia was importing large amounts of oil from Iraq, and they were opposed to the war. Have you figured it out yet?

 

[Beachie]

Originally posted by dvdrip
Saddam holds them all together. Take him out and they all try to kill each other!

That's quite an assumption.

They are are not going to spent their money. They are spending US people's money to pay the weapon factories that pay them to have the war. Most of the white house is a consultant for a weapon factory including the one that resigned.
Also a lot of weapons have expiration dates.

..and the majority don't.

Afghanistan was different. There was a government before the taliban and they were trying to get back in power.

Iraq has never had a democratic government.

But there are people who have opposed him, and have been killed. In 1995, Saddam's Minister of Military Industries, along with his brother (both married to Saddam's daughters) defected to Jordan and called for the overthrow of Saddam..

Why use your own expensive oil when it is free around the corner?

But it's not free, if it cost tens of billions of dollars to get control of it.

 

[NamePopper.com]

We also don't steal children from their homes - and threaten to kill their families if the males don't go and fight. We also don't have women and children walking in front of our military vehicles - as they move from one place to another. We also don't intentionally locate our key military targets just feet from hospitals and schools - so we can later claim that our civilians were killed. The list could go on forever......

Our guys are soldiers. Their guys are terrorists. Big difference.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Anybody who supports or condones the terrorist & cowardly acts described above - has no clue and no conscience. It's pitiful and disgusting really.......

 

[Beachie]

Originally posted by think
Aljazeera is up in English again for a third time. Whether it will stay up is always a question that makes one go "hmmmm". Maybe this time it will stay up for more than a couple hours :

http://english.aljazeera.net/topics/index.asp?cu_no=1&lng=0&template_id=1&temp_type=44

Can anyone confirm if the English and Arabic versions of Al Jazeera say the same thing? They are obviously not exactly the same (why?), but are they biased for their respective audiences?

 

[dvdrip]

I think my assuption is true.
I know the majority don't. This was kind of a joke.

In the end they will make a profit from the war. Who do you think paid for the first Iraq war?

The whole issue is not if Saddam is evil(he is) or not. The issue is who made the us the world police? The Us pissed on the UN and they are going to regret it in the long run. Who gave them the right to invade whichever country they decide. There are(were) lot of evil dictators around the world that the us did nothing about. How do they choose who to invade? I guess we all know.
There are 20 UN resolutions about Cyprus in the last 30 years but the US are(were?) friends with Turkey and did nothing.
Now almost the whole world are against them.

Originally posted by Beachie

That's quite an assumption.
..and the majority don't.
But there are people who have opposed him, and have been killed. In 1995, Saddam's Minister of Military Industries, along with his brother (both married to Saddam's daughters) defected to Jordan and called for the overthrow of Saddam..
But it's not free, if it cost tens of billions of dollars to get control of it.

 

[Shiftlock]

Originally posted by dvdrip
I think my assuption is true.
I know the majority don't. This was kind of a joke.

In the end they will make a profit from the war. Who do you think paid for the first Iraq war?

The whole issue is not if Saddam is evil(he is) or not. The issue is who made the us the world police? The Us pissed on the UN and they are going to regret it in the long run. Who gave them the right to invade whichever country they decide. There are(were) lot of evil dictators around the world that the us did nothing about. How do they choose who to invade? I guess we all know.
There are 20 UN resolutions about Cyprus in the last 30 years but the US are(were?) friends with Turkey and did nothing.
Now almost the whole world are against them.

In my opinion, the U.S. should not be invading Iraq. I'm not a pacifist - I know war is sometimes necessary - but I just don't see the justification here. I haven't seen any good evidence that Iraq has funded terrorism. 9/11 made everyone in the U.S. a little crazy, and rightfully so, but we have to put our thinking caps on and take a deep breath here. There are three reason why this war is bad:

Economic

The U.S. will not "make a profit from" this war. It will cost a very large amount of money. Our government just approved $80 billion for the first round of funding. Our economy does not need this right now.

Diplomatic

Most of the rest of the world, our allies included, obviously sees this whole thing differently than the U.S. Taking nothing else into consideration, you have to ask your self why that is. The world sould be run in a somewhat democratic fashion, and if we ignore every other country's opinion and do whatever we want, we start to look like a rouge nation. Other countries start to question whether they want to be associated with us.

Humanitarian

We are killing thousands of Iraqi people. Women, children, adolescent boy who are forced to fight. It's really very sad. We're told that the bombs are so smart and accurate that they kill only the bad guys, but several of them have missed by an entire country. Yes, war is ugly, which is why you should never fight a war unless there is absolutely no other option. Despite what you see on CNN, the Iraqi people do not want the U.S. to invade their country. You can see that by reading blogs posted by Iraqi citizens in Iraq.

 

[dvdrip]

The reasoning behind the war is quite funny I think.
This Bush character keeps changing it all the time.
Bush started saying that they are going after Iraq cause they funded terrorism. Then he said that they have chemical weapons and now (having not found any chemical weapons from the ones the US sold to Iraq) he is saying they are invading in order to free the Iraqi people(whether they want it or not) and save their resources.
Basically the most important thing they think they have accomplished is that they saved the oil! Well done!

The whitehouse doesn't care about the US people. They don't care about their soldiers. Maybe the Us makes a profit maybe they don't. Whitehouse and the weapon factories are going to make a profit nomatter what.

The US tv is cencored. Don't bellieve all you see.
I have seen us soldiers blackmailing a boy with one leg to smile at the camera in order to give him candy. This is disgusting.

Originally posted by Shiftlock



In my opinion, the U.S. should not be invading Iraq. I'm not a pacifist - I know war is sometimes necessary - but I just don't see the justification here. I haven't seen any good evidence that Iraq has funded terrorism. 9/11 made everyone in the U.S. a little crazy, and rightfully so, but we have to put our thinking caps on and take a deep breath here. There are three reason why this war is bad:

Economic

The U.S. will not "make a profit from" this war. It will cost a very large amount of money. Our government just approved $80 billion for the first round of funding. Our economy does not need this right now.

Diplomatic

Most of the rest of the world, our allies included, obviously sees this whole thing differently than the U.S. Taking nothing else into consideration, you have to ask your self why that is. The world sould be run in a somewhat democratic fashion, and if we ignore every other country's opinion and do whatever we want, we start to look like a rouge nation. Other countries start to question whether they want to be associated with us.

Humanitarian

We are killing thousands of Iraqi people. Women, children, adolescent boy who are forced to fight. It's really very sad. We're told that the bombs are so smart and accurate that they kill only the bad guys, but several of them have missed by an entire country. Yes, war is ugly, which is why you should never fight a war unless there is absolutely no other option. Despite what you see on CNN, the Iraqi people do not want the U.S. to invade their country. You can see that by reading blogs posted by Iraqi citizens in Iraq.

 

[draqon]

I think the war is great!

 

[dvdrip]

Why don't you go to Iraq?

 

[Cash Is King]

Originally posted by dvdrip
Why don't you go to Iraq?

Why don't you quit trying to run the coalition from your recliner.

 

[dvdrip]

No coalition and no recliner here. Are you talking about GWB?

 

[draqon]

well said, Draqon

Originally posted by draqon
I think the war is great!

 

[Cash Is King]

Originally posted by dvdrip
No coalition and no recliner here. Are you talking about GWB?

Hey Drip

I awaiting your response from the other lounge thread. As bush says, You are either for the war on terror or a terrorist. What side of the fence are you on?

 

[Togoodhlth]

Originally posted by Shiftlock



In my opinion, the U.S. should not be invading Iraq. I'm not a pacifist - I know war is sometimes necessary - but I just don't see the justification here. I haven't seen any good evidence that Iraq has funded terrorism. 9/11 made everyone in the U.S. a little crazy, and rightfully so, but we have to put our thinking caps on and take a deep breath here. There are three reason why this war is bad:
_________________________________________________
Well, peoples opinions matter however in the case of whether or not a war is warranted I would much prefer those with a LOT more infoprmation making the decision.

Economic

The U.S. will not "make a profit from" this war. It will cost a very large amount of money. Our government just approved $80 billion for the first round of funding. Our economy does not need this right now.
_____________________________________________
Tough to judge the economy. According to many experts the "recession" had started long before the war.
Here in the Northeast USA some businesses are BOOMING!
I guess it depends on the sector.

Diplomatic

Most of the rest of the world, our allies included, obviously sees this whole thing differently than the U.S. Taking nothing else into consideration, you have to ask your self why that is. The world sould be run in a somewhat democratic fashion, and if we ignore every other country's opinion and do whatever we want, we start to look like a rouge nation. Other countries start to question whether they want to be associated with us.
________________________________________________
I already can see why some of our allies don't want a war. It is for fear we will find out they were selling things like Night vision equipment or missiles to Iraq despite the sanctions.
There are going to be/are some damned embarassed countries once we have the opportunity to see Iraqs books.

Incidently there are soldiers from several countries other than the US, UK and Australia.

Humanitarian

We are killing thousands of Iraqi people. Women, children, adolescent boy who are forced to fight. It's really very sad. We're told that the bombs are so smart and accurate that they kill only the bad guys, but several of them have missed by an entire country. Yes, war is ugly, which is why you should never fight a war unless there is absolutely no other option. Despite what you see on CNN, the Iraqi people do not want the U.S. to invade their country. You can see that by reading blogs posted by Iraqi citizens in Iraq.

________________________________________________
And Saddam has killed hundreds of thousands. Literally!

Regardless of whether or not we intervene thousands will die. I can only hope we are able to keep the number of civilian casualties as low as possible. It appears we have been as Saddams (regimes) own inflated numbers state there are approximately 1000 civilians who have died. Cut this number in half and divide by 12 an we probably come up with somewhere near the correct amount.

How many of these "civilians" were soldiers dressed in civilian clothing attacking a tank with a toyota?
How many were killed by the Iraqis themselves?

By the way Al jazeera is a joke! They are indirectly (in some cases directly) funded by countries/regimes who want the US to look bad. Have you heard some of their nonsense/lies?
THe International Inquirer?!

Ok, got that off my chest.
God bless everyone in Iraq! And the rest of the world for that matter.

 

[Beachie]

Originally posted by Shiftlock
We are killing thousands of Iraqi people. Women, children, adolescent boy who are forced to fight. It's really very sad. We're told that the bombs are so smart and accurate that they kill only the bad guys, but several of them have missed by an entire country. Yes, war is ugly, which is why you should never fight a war unless there is absolutely no other option. Despite what you see on CNN, the Iraqi people do not want the U.S. to invade their country. You can see that by reading blogs posted by Iraqi citizens in Iraq.

The Iraqi Mis-Information Minister said around 1000 civilians have been killed. Assuming this isn't wildly exaggerated (in the same way that the US are "not even 100kms from Baghdad"), let's do the math:

Hypothetically, how many Iraqis (Kurdish, Shi'a and others) have been murdered since the Gulf War? Let's give a conservative estimate of 5000. So, if we'd taken Saddam out 12 years ago, we'd be 4000 humans up.

Maybe you think we should wait another 12 years for the UN to pull it's finger out? Meanwhile Russia, a UN permanent member with the power of veto, can continue to smuggle oil through Turkey, violating UN sanctions.

 

[Shiftlock]

Originally posted by Beachie
Hypothetically, how many Iraqis (Kurdish, Shi'a and others) have been murdered since the Gulf War? Let's give a conservative estimate of 5000. So, if we'd taken Saddam out 12 years ago, we'd be 4000 humans up.

Ugh, give me a break. Do you really think this war is happening because the Bush administration cares about the Iraqi people? Come on...

We don't really know what is true when it comes to how many people have been murdered by the Saddam regime. He's a bad dude for sure, but the facts are sketchy to say the least. If you think the Western media isn't involved in propaganda just as much or even more than the Iraqi government, then it's working just the way they want it to.

If a few hundred civilians have been killed in just a few weeks, that's insane. This war will go on for months, and the U.S. is just now entering the city. That's where the blooshed is going to happen, with Iraqi fighters snipering from windows, and U.S. soldiers shooting into the buildings to get them. Oops, there goes another 4-year-old girl... Someones sister, daughter, neice... :cry: Oh well... Oops, just hit a woman sleeping in her bed... Hope her family doesn't miss her too much... Oh well, collateral damage.... :cry: Not my problem, she spoke a funny language anyway... But at least it makes for good television back here at home, right? The news hasn't been this good since the OJ trial. :sad:

 

[Cash Is King]

Originally posted by Shiftlock


Ugh, give me a break. Do you really think this war is happening because the Bush administration cares about the Iraqi people? Come on...

We don't really know what is true when it comes to how many people have been murdered by the Saddam regime. He's a bad dude for sure, but the facts are sketchy to say the least. If you think the Western media isn't involved in propaganda just as much or even more than the Iraqi government, then it's working just the way they want it to.

If a few hundred civilians have been killed in just a few weeks, that's insane. This war will go on for months, and the U.S. is just now entering the city. That's where the blooshed is going to happen, with Iraqi fighters snipering from windows, and U.S. soldiers shooting into the buildings to get them. Oops, there goes another 4-year-old girl... Someones sister, daughter, neice... :cry: Oh well... Oops, just hit a woman sleeping in her bed... Hope her family doesn't miss her too much... Oh well, collateral damage.... :cry: Not my problem, she spoke a funny language anyway... But at least it makes for good television back here at home, right? The news hasn't been this good since the OJ trial. :sad:

It does not matter what you or I believe Bush thinks about the Iraqi people or anybody else for that matter. The bottom line is he is the leader of our country. The objectives are set, we back our leader, our country and our troops.

Comments about Iraqi tactics using human shields etc. are immaterial. Our goals are clear. We will win and we will not accept any other outcome. Any other conversation not related to performance review of the coalition goals are immaterial, propaganda, opinion and well just not necessary.

I am one that is looking forward to upcoming treason charges against US people after this war is over.

 

[Shiftlock]

Originally posted by WebHold
It does not matter what you or I believe Bush thinks about the Iraqi people or anybody else for that matter. The bottom line is he is the leader of our country. The objectives are set, we back our leader, our country and our troops.

Comments about Iraqi tactics using human shields etc. are immaterial. Our goals are clear. We will win and we will not accept any other outcome. Any other conversation not related to performance review of the coalition goals are immaterial, propaganda, opinion and well just not necessary.

I am one that is looking forward to upcoming treason charges against US people after this war is over.

It does not matter what you or I believe? We should just blindly follow our "leader" without question? Treason charges against U.S. people for expressing an opinion? Are you listening to yourself? Those are scary comments... Perhaps you would PREFER a dictatorship more like Saddam's Baath party afterall! Last I checked we were free to express our minds, and it was not only our right, but our OBLIGATION to question our government's actions and decisions. THINK!

 

[Beachie]

Originally posted by Shiftlock
Ugh, give me a break. Do you really think this war is happening because the Bush administration cares about the Iraqi people? Come on...

This isn't a black and white issue, so if more than one objective is accomplished then so be it. President Bush gets whatever it is you think he wants (and what is that exactly? Oil?), and the Iraqi people get freedom from decades of murderous dictatorship.

If you were president, I expect you would stand idly by and do nothing. How many more thousands of people would you allow to be persecuted while you worry about collateral damage, and wait for a UN resolution that will never come?
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke (1729-1797).

 

[Cash Is King]

Originally posted by Shiftlock


It does not matter what you or I believe? We should just blindly follow our "leader" without question? Treason charges against U.S. people for expressing an opinion? Are you listening to yourself? Those are scary comments... Perhaps you would PREFER a dictatorship more like Saddam's Baath party afterall! Last I checked we were free to express our minds, and it was not only our right, but our OBLIGATION to question our government's actions and decisions. THINK!

Shift

Americans are informed every step of the way by asking questions and getting explantions to the direction we are headed. We have been asking thousands upon thousands of questions every week to the top leaders of our country. I am proud that they take the time to brief us every single day of the ins and the outs of this war. Opinions, after the decision for war has been made by top leadership, serves no benefit to anyone. The treason laws are pretty clear during war time. Anti-war setiment, especially with the people that can sway the masses, will be dealt with accordingly.

You need to remember that if we were all so damn good, we would be the president of this country. I realize it is intriguing to run the country from our recliners, it is now time to come back down to earth and return to our day jobs.