What the hell I am fully fed up!!!!!!!!!

[allroundguy]

02.55 am over here ...
I have the idea slaich2000 doesn't mind this discussion.
Our mod hasn't kicked us off yet.

So, here goes:
There are no crap domains, no crap houses, no crap cars ...
There is no such thing as objective value estimation.
From the moment that choice of used parameters is possible, a method is not scientific.
It is subject to manipulation and interpretation.

Do not mistake:
Value is what something is worth at a certain moment for some reason to an individual or a group.
"Fair Market price" doesn't exist.
The term has been thrown in economy books for some obscure reason.
Buyer, "Willing" and "Ready" and "Without Pressure" is nonsense.
Nobody buys anything without a reason, impulsive or not.
And sometimes people buy something while they have choice to not do it, don't really want to do it, but feel they have to do it.
That's fair?

For instance: Prices on a market can vary during market hours.
Some things get cheaper as time goes by.
Other things get more expensive.
What's fair?

If an individual or group accepts certain ideas about a given item, relationship, whatever, then the individual/group may believe something has a value that can be very different from the viewpoint of another individual/group.
Everybody can set up a valuation system and promote it as a standard.
Sellers and buyers are free to accept or reject advice.
It's seller's and buyer's money.

Look at domain appraisers:
I found not one transparent appraising method.
They say they use ...many parameters for their scientific "academic" methodology.
They sum up a number of things taken into their comparisons.
But where are the formulas?
Ah, yes: Insider information, of course.

I say:
Value estimation can never be scientific, simply because it is not objective and cannot be reproduced under identical conditions.
A domain can be sold and resold several times in a short time.
Each buyer pays what it takes, and wins or looses.
It is similar to antiques selling, stock market trading, etc.
Horse race gambling?

It takes some knowledge about product and players.
But, in the end, nobody knows what comes.

Not 100% correct maybe, but quite well explained:
It is not about product.
It is about market.
It is not about domains.
It is about buyers.

What's crap for one, may be gold for another.
Some people go for new building.
Some people go for renovation.
Why? They think they know. Anyway: Who cares?

Some people believe, following their own motivation, why it is not suitable for who knows what.
Subjective to those people, and it's okay.
Other people might well have an idea about how to use the domain, and that is just as right.
It is a matter of subjective approach.

The more people say what they think, the more trends could be found.

There are no crappy domains, because domains have no value.
Domains can have any value, depending of the people valuating them.

Frankly, I have no immediate use for zer0blivion.com.
That doesn't mean I won't get a sublime idea later this day, tomorrow or never.
No, zer0blivion.com "is" not crappy.
It could be used for several purposes.
I think I would not start up a "zer0blivion" company.
Unless it would get me some ROI.
But, dear friends, wouldn't we then all bid on it?

This said, Yes, I think there is money in domaining.
But it takes some work and some luck.
I cannot predict the future.
What's going to work?
Who knows.

slaich2000's father is right, in his belief.
It is his belief.

Thanks for Your patience.
Johnny

 

[charlescarreon]

I don't know. Zer0blivion.com has a certain charm, for like a black, licorice-flavored form of booze with a little black gummy worm full of caffeine at the bottom. People could race to see who could drink it down to the bottom first. Then you could do do other things, like AbStink.com, a green, slimy drink for nine-year olds. Oh yeah, that already exists. Just trying to help.

 

[jasdon11]

02.55 am over here ...
I have the idea slaich2000 doesn't mind this discussion.
Our mod hasn't kicked us off yet.

So, here goes:
There are no crap domains, no crap houses, no crap cars ...
There is no such thing as objective value estimation.
From the moment that choice of used parameters is possible, a method is not scientific.
It is subject to manipulation and interpretation.

Do not mistake:
Value is what something is worth at a certain moment for some reason to an individual or a group.
"Fair Market price" doesn't exist.
The term has been thrown in economy books for some obscure reason.
Buyer, "Willing" and "Ready" and "Without Pressure" is nonsense.
Nobody buys anything without a reason, impulsive or not.
And sometimes people buy something while they have choice to not do it, don't really want to do it, but feel they have to do it.
That's fair?

For instance: Prices on a market can vary during market hours.
Some things get cheaper as time goes by.
Other things get more expensive.
What's fair?

If an individual or group accepts certain ideas about a given item, relationship, whatever, then the individual/group may believe something has a value that can be very different from the viewpoint of another individual/group.
Everybody can set up a valuation system and promote it as a standard.
Sellers and buyers are free to accept or reject advice.
It's seller's and buyer's money.

Look at domain appraisers:
I found not one transparent appraising method.
They say they use ...many parameters for their scientific "academic" methodology.
They sum up a number of things taken into their comparisons.
But where are the formulas?
Ah, yes: Insider information, of course.

I say:
Value estimation can never be scientific, simply because it is not objective and cannot be reproduced under identical conditions.
A domain can be sold and resold several times in a short time.
Each buyer pays what it takes, and wins or looses.
It is similar to antiques selling, stock market trading, etc.
Horse race gambling?

It takes some knowledge about product and players.
But, in the end, nobody knows what comes.

Not 100% correct maybe, but quite well explained:
It is not about product.
It is about market.
It is not about domains.
It is about buyers.

What's crap for one, may be gold for another.
Some people go for new building.
Some people go for renovation.
Why? They think they know. Anyway: Who cares?

Some people believe, following their own motivation, why it is not suitable for who knows what.
Subjective to those people, and it's okay.
Other people might well have an idea about how to use the domain, and that is just as right.
It is a matter of subjective approach.

The more people say what they think, the more trends could be found.

There are no crappy domains, because domains have no value.
Domains can have any value, depending of the people valuating them.

Frankly, I have no immediate use for zer0blivion.com.
That doesn't mean I won't get a sublime idea later this day, tomorrow or never.
No, zer0blivion.com "is" not crappy.
It could be used for several purposes.
I think I would not start up a "zer0blivion" company.
Unless it would get me some ROI.
But, dear friends, wouldn't we then all bid on it?

This said, Yes, I think there is money in domaining.
But it takes some work and some luck.
I cannot predict the future.
What's going to work?
Who knows.

slaich2000's father is right, in his belief.
It is his belief.

Thanks for Your patience.
Johnny

Sounds like you've spent too long in philosophy class in college and not enough time making coin in the real world.

Telling us beauty is in the eye of the beholder does not infer any inherent value to that domain. There is value in a domain if it adds something to the application (website) that otherwise wouldn't be there; it's got to bring something to the party.

There are crap houses, crap cars, crap domains, crap theories. This is proven by the number of people wanting the item in question. 30k unloved domains drop each day and most of them are crap.

There are no crap LLL.coms because there is a value to them - a long line of potential buyers forms whenever one drops. There is your 'scientific method' if you require one to be able to understand where value comes from.

 

[charlescarreon]

Values are relative, of this we can agree. What is lagging the domain market is, in fact, a single, reliable marketplace where all sales are posted, all domains offered for sale can be searched, and reliable traffic statistics are available for each domain. For example, all the speculation about the value of Sex.Com, with people bandying values ranging widely and randomly, would simply disappear if, as part of the auction process, the traffic statistics were posted. You wouldn't auction a car without posting the make, model, year and mileage, but here what is widely believed to be the world's most valuable domain is sitting in the middle of a black hole of non-information. As long as this continues, domain dealing will be hit or miss, more art than science, and not a wise place for anyone in search of reliable returns to start prospecting at the present time.

 

[jasdon11]

Values are relative, of this we can agree. What is lagging the domain market is, in fact, a single, reliable marketplace where all sales are posted, all domains offered for sale can be searched, and reliable traffic statistics are available for each domain. For example, all the speculation about the value of Sex.Com, with people bandying values ranging widely and randomly, would simply disappear if, as part of the auction process, the traffic statistics were posted. You wouldn't auction a car without posting the make, model, year and mileage, but here what is widely believed to be the world's most valuable domain is sitting in the middle of a black hole of non-information. As long as this continues, domain dealing will be hit or miss, more art than science, and not a wise place for anyone in search of reliable returns to start prospecting at the present time.

I agree with the sentiment of this, but due to infinate variables I can't see anything like this coming about.

First and foremost being every name is unique - adding an 's' to many domains can shed most of its value (few it can add value). Secondly, it would be no less open to abuse than the current fractured market we have now regarding traffic figures etc. Traffic in itself is infinately variable between casual browsers, people looking for relative product pricing, and the creme de la creme - the buyer; one is worth something and must cover the cost of all the others plus some. The list goes on.

I think the market we have now, is what it's meant to be. There are enough market models out there but domains don't seem to fit into any of them due to the variables. Quality domains will retain a value as there are enough of us (domainers) to create a market for them. Outside of that, there are dribs and drabs of end users who see the value and can leverage the traffic better than the rest of us, and so we see the occasional great sale. This lends a certain liquidity to a tiny percentage of domains, but unlike a guy with 50 cars sitting for sale on a lot, most domains registered for resale are destined to be a total loss as most are worthless.

 

[VirtualT]

Sounds like you've spent too long in philosophy class in college and not enough time making coin in the real world.
There is value in a domain if it adds something to the application (website) that otherwise wouldn't be there; it's got to bring something to the party.

No it doesn't at all. A seemingly worthless or non-descript domain can be branded and built upon, such as, say for example google.com or yahoo.com or microsoft.com etc
Basically what allroundguy is saying is a domain is a domain is worth what someone is prepared to pay for it, which is how it works making coin in the real world

 

[jasdon11]

No it doesn't at all. A seemingly worthless or non-descript domain can be branded and built upon, such as, say for example google.com or yahoo.com or microsoft.com etc
Basically what allroundguy is saying is a domain is a domain is worth what someone is prepared to pay for it, which is how it works making coin in the real world

That proves that a good plan has a value - not every domain. Google, Yahoo et al had valuable plans; the domains were worthless until their plans were put into effect. The domains weren't un-mined diamonds just waiting for someone to register them to become successful.

Everyone knows a domain (like anything else) is worth what someone is willing to pay for it - what allroundguy is saying is that every domain has value and that there are no crap domains.

Are you trying to say that you can you take any domain and make it worth something without a plan? Without adding value to it?


Edit: domainalchemist.com isn't registered!

 

[radioz]

Values are relative, of this we can agree. What is lagging the domain market is, in fact, a single, reliable marketplace where all sales are posted, all domains offered for sale can be searched, and reliable traffic statistics are available for each domain. For example, all the speculation about the value of Sex.Com, with people bandying values ranging widely and randomly, would simply disappear if, as part of the auction process, the traffic statistics were posted. You wouldn't auction a car without posting the make, model, year and mileage, but here what is widely believed to be the world's most valuable domain is sitting in the middle of a black hole of non-information. As long as this continues, domain dealing will be hit or miss, more art than science, and not a wise place for anyone in search of reliable returns to start prospecting at the present time.

An excellent post! Also, a business opportunity for someone who can aggregate at least as is much as is possible in one place too!

Look at domain appraisers:
I found not one transparent appraising method.
They say they use ...many parameters for their scientific "academic" methodology.
They sum up a number of things taken into their comparisons.
But where are the formulas?
Ah, yes: Insider information, of course.

Completely agreed!

Edit: domainalchemist.com isn't registered!

99 cents and (I think) Go Daddy code 'BUY2010' can change that!! e-d0mainallychemiculz123.biz might be better though but that's a judgement call (OUCH).

 

[allroundguy]

"Are you trying to say that you can you take any domain and make it worth something without a plan? Without adding value to it?"

Well, yes, it just takes somebody who pays for it ...
Look at all the domains dropping to be purchased sometimes within minutes.
People pay for what others obviously don't want anymore.
Are there so many "good" domains that people want?

Yes, popularity - keywords can trigger interest for a domain.
Yes, content - traffic - revenue can trigger interest for a website.
We must just keep in mind that there can be a relationship between a domain and a web, but domain is not web.

 

[jasdon11]

"Are you trying to say that you can you take any domain and make it worth something without a plan? Without adding value to it?"

Well, yes, it just takes somebody who pays for it ...

So until someone pays for it, what is it? Worthless crap. If no-one ever pays for it, it is always crap - in fact it's worse - a liability.

Look at all the domains dropping to be purchased sometimes within minutes.

Yes and this also proves my point - these domains must have certain qualities that are missing from the crap names.

 

[charlescarreon]

Traffic in itself is infinately variable between casual browsers, people looking for relative product pricing, and the creme de la creme - the buyer; one is worth something and must cover the cost of all the others plus some.

I think I said reliable traffic figures. The market would have to have a standardized statistics-gathering script installed on each domain in the market. I suspect that such a market will be a long time in coming, but eventually will. Why? Because there is so much money being made on the ignorance and speculative mentality that fuels the activity that prompted the OP to make his post. And I have been guilty of contributing to that through my own behavior, even as my clients have demonstrated to me that the money is not made with impulsive hand-regging. I am just now beginning to do what I know I need to do. Kiss those silly impulse registrations goodbye, and just keep the few for which I have active sites or very good reasons to keep.

 

[allroundguy]

So then, the domains are first dropped because they are crap and then immediately purchased by others because they are not crap?
You are constantly saying contradicting things.
You see what is written, but You don't understand what it is about.
I don't put more energy in this.
My businesses run smoothly without Your (crappy?) advice.

 

[katherine]

There is a lot of crap that won't be registered again.
Saying there are no crap domains is not thinking that earns money IMO.
The amount of crap is infinite while quality is in limited supply

 

[jasdon11]

So then, the domains are first dropped because they are crap and then immediately purchased by others because they are not crap?

No. Not all dropping domains are crap.

You are constantly saying contradicting things.

Obviously not as I never said what you've written in the line above - that was some weird and incorrect conclusion that you somehow came to. Perhaps it's a language thing...

You see what is written, but You don't understand what it is about.

Please refer to my previous two answers - then look in the mirror; you ought to be blushing at this point.

I don't put more energy in this.

Now where have I heard that before...

My businesses run smoothly without Your (crappy?) advice.

I assume your businesses don't involve selling domain names then.

 

[DN BROKER]

Hope, wonderful post! :bow:

Thank You Glad to have your support

 

[Diabro]

:undecided: OK, I never really knew the dude but I had to look when I saw he was banned, but I hope that at some point the admins will consider unbanning slaich2000. I read his post which is the one that I feel got him banned and it seems more out of frustration than malice. He just seems to be a frustrated young man more than anything. Add the language barrier and I think that it may just be a tragic situation.
I would say that anyone who thinks domaining is a quick easy way to make money may be mistaken. I have seen too many people spend too much money on crap to think that the majority of domainers are successful.

If he is not re-instated I would just like to say good luck to slaich2000 if he reads this. I know things are hard and it is frustrating but I hope you can at least break even in the domaining sector if you feel you have to move on.

http://www.dnforum.com/member-slaich2000.html

 

[INVIGOR]

...

 

[Diabro]

Boy have you got some catching up to do. His banning had nothing to do with this thread.

Don't worry, a couple of hours ago, I was in the same boat.

I think it may be this post but there may be some deleted ones:

http://www.dnforum.com/f557/airtel-com-35-000-pool-com-6-thread-408538.html#post1888850

And that one just seems like frustration. That thread is locked so I replied here.

 

[DomainScoop.Com]

The op on the DP Forum, offered me Other domain for sale for 5k which is owned by someone else, and added me on skype. The value of that name is way more than 5k

Op is definately not trustworthy!

 

[katherine]

Tsk. People are looking for shortcuts to wealth