Are All Domainers Cybersquatters?

[EG.domains]

From DomainNews

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With the number of domains being registered by domainers, domain tasters and various domain monetization companies, the cybersquatting debate continues to increase in intensity. In the Vtalkradio interview with Professor Eric Goldman, the phenomena of domaining is explored. Are all domainers cybersquatters? What is the impact of domain tasting on the domain industry? Where is the domain monetization industry headed next?

Professor Eric Goldman of the Santa Clara University School of Law is the assistant professor/director of the school’s high tech law institute. Before that he was the assistant professor at Marquette University Law School in Wisconsin, and his specialties are cyberlaw, cyberspace, intellectual properties and copyright.

DomainNews.com has posted both the audio and written transcript of the interview below…


Question: So what is a domainer and domaining? It’s a pretty hot subject with everything that’s going on on the internet right now.

ERIC: I think that we’re still working on an exact definition, but a typical domainer has some of the following attributes: They register a lot of domain names and in some cases they register them on an automated basis. Typically they create a very light content site onto that domain name. They will typically have some sort of ad platform that will generate revenue from that particular page. So the typical domainer has a large portfolio of domain names with content attached to their websites that’s mostly ads.

Question: What would make a domainer different from a cybersquatter then?

ERIC: Well, that’s one of the issues that we’re wrestling with in the field is whether domainers are cybersquatters and there’s been a strong split of opinion about that topic. In the late 1990’s and even earlier than that, we had a very strong and relatively clear definition of cybersquatters. These are people who would acquire a domain name for the profitable resale of that domain name. Typically they would identify a trademark owner or a well known person register the domain name before that person could register it or that company could register it and then play a hold up game. Tell the company or person that if they wanted the domain name back, they would have to pay an extravagent amount of money and that is that and it’s gotten so out of control that a couple of different types of regulations were introduced to squelch it which they’ve done pretty well. However, domain name isn’t quite that. Often times the domainers are not particularly interested in profitable resale and, in fact, in my experience many times when domainers get complaints about domains, they’ll just hand the domain name back, no questions asked and no money charged. They’re not looking to make money from the resale of the domain names, they’re looking to make money from the traffic that flows from the visitors who come to those particular domains and the sites that has them. So, we’re not entirely sure if domainers are really just new and slightly different variation of cybersquatters or if they are really a new class of activity that wasn’t contemplated by the problems we saw in the late 1990’s.

Question: So, by listening to the psuedo definition of it is it can’t really be nailed down at this point. It’s more like a land speculation deal where you think this person may go up so you buy into it now?

ERIC: Well yeah, I think you’re on the right track. In other words, think about when a city or a county builds a new stadium and because of that there is gonna be all these people who are gonna be driving to that stadium and from that stadium as part of going to a game or fair or some festival. So all the real estate along that route are gonna be suddently more valuable as there is more traffic coming to and from the stadium. Certainly domainers take advantage of the fact that people are trying to get to a particular place and they’re using the technology of domain names to try and get where they are going and along the way domainers hope to make some money from these people on their journey.
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[DomainingCom]

No. But all cybersquaters are domainers.

 

[Focus]

Well, I have said this many times in old posts...that "domaining" as we know it has evolved from cybersquatting before it was "illegal" & there was a time I can remember when you could have owned "BurgerKing.com" and they would have had to have bought it from you if they wanted it since you had it FIRST...the good old days when the age old rule of "early bird gets the worm" applied...see all domains with traffic for the most part are a result of people going there and looking for a service, product, or information and by owning that domain and thus profitting from it's traffic and namesake you are in effect "squatting" that namespace and using it for a monetary gain...now of course it may not be a tm or typo, but even so if you own a domain for instance related to "health insurance" and you are not in that business, then you are in effect cybersquatting in my well informed opinion...if you really think about it...that is what makes this whole thing work. You have something other people want or visit. We are all cybersquatters...we hold domains hostage and we sell them for as much as we can get or use them for making money..this is capitalism at it's best and I personally am DAMN PROUD to be an Domainer!

I like to refer to myself as a "Gatekeeper" of the Internet...how is a landlord renting out a condo any different really?

 

[Seraphim]

What about the guy with his big shoe in my niche. He buys domains, but won't park, sell, or develop. I have nothing against him, but would love to kick his ass.

 

[GeorgeK]

Also discussed at:

http://www.circleid.com/posts/791411_radio_interview_domainers_domaining/

where I submitted comments.

 

[Theo]

What about the guy with his big shoe in my niche. He buys domains, but won't park, sell, or develop. I have nothing against him, but would love to kick his ass.

Who's that?

 

[Seraphim]

Who's that?

He's a rumored 89 year old billionaire, and big time domainer. If I say his name, his lawyer will ask me to step out in the parking lot.

 

[Focus]

you are the only person I know more paranoid than me...lol

I like it. Makes me feel normal..

So whats his name :smile:

 

[Domainmaster]

They were very good comments George. I liked the examples you used.

I tried to reply but the site wouldn't accept it.

Also discussed at:

http://www.circleid.com/posts/791411_radio_interview_domainers_domaining/

where I submitted comments.

 

[katherine]

... We are all cybersquatters...

Hmm. No.

we hold domains hostage and we sell them for as much as we can get or use them for making money..this is capitalism at it's best and I personally am DAMN PROUD to be an American Cybersquatting Domainer!

Not everybody is selling names... you can also live on traffic revenue or development...
As for holding domains hostage it's not truly the way I see things. I consider myself a custodian :shy:

 

[carlton]

... even so if you own a domain for instance related to "health insurance" and you are not in that business, then you are in effect cybersquatting in my well informed opinion ...We are all cybersquatters...

Your post is one of the most irresponsible positions I've ever read. No, we're not all cybersquatters. You need to be much more cautious in your use of that term. There are serious problems in our industry with general misinformation and ignorance. I can only hope you have a better grasp of the issues than your post implies. There are very important distinctions that seperate most domain investors from those that break laws and exploit known trademarks. Hope I'm misreading your intent Focus.

 

[Focus]

I live in reality....many of you live in this idealistic conceptual BS, 90% of us have TM domains and typos...we only exist based on the fact that we possess something companies want or people visit online...either thru search, direct navigation or potential into development as so....don't ever be ashamed of where you come from..if you have been in this industry as long as I have (since about 98') you realize this all started with people grabbing valuable namespace before others did. This my friend is reality. Sure there are the ultra-safe developers and generic only crowd here and there..but reality is they are not the majority, they are the minority. I call a spade a spade. That's just me, I am honest.

...now of course you are gonna say what about the guy with mall.com and insurance.com, etc etc...well, those are the fairytale domains and surely do not comprise the majority of our portfolios..in fact, these monsters and many others are mostly owned by huge conglomerates and parent companies who have spent big big bucks on them. These examples are simply a speck of sand in the overall domain market...it's just like the whole LLL thing...what makes them valuable? Companies want them, they mean something, and they get traffic alot of time...now finally..is cybersquatting BAD? NO. Imo, absolutely NO

...I also believe that if people are typing in something wrong and you direct them to the correct place and turn a profit in the process you are'nt doing a bad thing..now pointing kids to porn sites and myspace traffic to credit card ads and such is wrong and those people are dealt with accordingly and there are processes & laws in place to detect and discourage that whether it be from a parking company or the govt. And as far as the comments go on typo/tm traffic "polluting the ppc market" and "reducing the quality of clicks" and such that has been mentioned by some in this and other threads on DNF, and the ignorant suggestion that this takes money out of others pocket is pure misinformation..who do you think is more likely to order a pizza from pizzahut after clicking a link online? The guy originating from "Pizza.com" or "PzzaHut.com" ..well take a wild guess!
Typos and TM domains convert BETTER than generic traffic, PERIOD. Whether it's right or wrong in your mind is a moral issue I guess, but companies are well informed on this process in todays business place and there are very easy ways for them to recover their typo or tm domains for a nominal cost..and as long as they DO NOT I personally do not have a moral issue with being a "gate keeper" ..ok US traffic coming from "CTIBANK.com" or "BANKACCOUNT.com" ..who do you think is a more valuable customer to "Citi Bank" as far as opening a new account or taking advantage of an online offer? Same goes for traffic from "AMRICANEXPRESS.com" or "ONLINECREDIT.com" ...the great thing for the advertiser is instead of paying the $5-$10 click for the generic traffic...they are paying like .30-.50 or something for typo traffic that converts better! And you say, well they meant to go there anyways...yeah, but guess what...when they misspell that domain and you did NOT have a parked page there to save them with relevent bank ads, they most likely would end up on a porn page or the default explorer search engine trying to send them to another bank advertisement where the highest bidding bank might "steal" them away from their intended destination and this also is why optimization is SO VERY IMPORTANT, make sure your traffic is finding what they are looking for and you are doing the Internet a service (otherwise you are scum)....ok, now go back...reread and take this all in..good luck everyone & peace and success! k:


ps - to those who have all generic everything and it gets enough traffic to pay your bills..GOD BLESS you! You're very lucky and a very small % of us.

ps2 - I also believe if you get some small companies domain in a drop and they need it back, or the guy who had some site up for years as a hobby, etc and they contact you to get their domain back, you should do the "right thing" and sell it back to them for a cheap or modest price..give a little back ya know..

I also believe that if a company contacts you and asks you for a domain that you know is infringing or a TM, you should hand it over and do the "right thing" however, I personally know of companies that prefer to pay for advertising and the traffic from their many typos in lieu of going thru the headache of collecting dozens of typo domains thru dozens of wipo cases or worse to get them..they have done the math and it just makes more sense to pay for advertising..and the truth is most companies have a GREAT online budget for advertising - so you have to ask yourself, is that money going in YOUR pocket, or someone else's?

 

[Seraphim]

As long as there is a reasonable amount of consumer access to domains, even at high end prices, a few flimsy labels should remain the brunt of any industry wide criticism coming from the plebs. Over consolidation is where I think problems for the industry are going to come from, and what domainers should fear today. Lack of consumer access to domains will open up a nasty can of worms, mark my words. The thing to remember, is even the best domains are still intangible mechanisms turning inside of an intangible system. If the herds seek water, the commerical forces and shepherds of the industry and can pull water out of thin air, regardless of how many billions of dollars are invested in consumer recognition of even the top TLDs. I hope the industry remains balanced, accessible to the public, and the majority of domains continue to provide useful services to their visitors. Balance is key here.

 

[Ian]

He's a rumored 89 year old billionaire, and big time domainer. If I say his name, his lawyer will ask me to step out in the parking lot.

Is it Stenzel? He doesn't park nor sell

 

[Seraphim]

Is it Stenzel? He doesn't park nor sell

Yes.

And for the record, I have no intentions of kicking his ass. If he wants to be buried like the pharaohs of Egypt with his domains, so be it.

 

[katherine]

...
is cybersquatting BAD? NO. Imo, absolutely NO
...

I am sure that Microsoft’s chief legal adviser Aaron Kornblum aka microsoft_legal is going to enjoy this thread :cheeky:
If you have MS typos don't mention them here.

 

[GeorgeK]

I tried to reply but the site wouldn't accept it.

CircleID requires one to be logged in to submit comments. I had some issues with Safari the other day when trying to submit comments, but switching to Firefox made it work. You can use their contact form if you have more technical problems with their site:

http://www.circleid.com/about/contact/

 

[GAMEFINEST]

I am not one, Thanks

 

[Focus]

I am sure that Microsoft’s chief legal adviser Aaron Kornblum aka microsoft_legal is going to enjoy this thread :cheeky:
If you have MS typos don't mention them here.

Hope they read up, because I personally have NEVER owned a microsoft typo! I think people that do are idiots! I have mostly generic typos or typos of social sites & dating sites personally

 

[Theo]

Hope they read up, because I personally have NEVER owned a microsoft typo! I think people that do are idiots! I have mostly generic typos or typos of social sites & dating sites personally

Don't lie, Chris.

You owned Mocus.com which as we all know stands for Microsoft Organizational Committee United States.