Indiana - sold - $50k

[URLCollection]

EDIT - SE INDEXING

 

[David G]

Perhaps there is more to the story than it seems in that it appears quite weird that no one is willing to answer the obvious issue as to the filing of criminal charges, and if not filed, why not? Some general information on how the fraud took place would be good too as that may help others who may end up buying a stolen domain.

Also, has anyone traced the money path (which should be real easy to trace) since such large cash transactions legally require banks to keep very detailed records of the transaction including the final recipient.

 

[WebCat]

Very good point, RealNames!

 

[JuniperPark]

for names in that price catergory domain selling sites need to do a better job of Due Diligence before offerring names to the public,,,,,

No kidding! Every broker and name reselling site should be making phone calls and sending email to the WHOIS contact, a notorized statement of ownership history (including all contact info to the previous owner which should be VERIFIED), photo ID of drivers' license, etc. This won't stop all fraud, but it will make it much easier to identify, locate and convict those involved.

 

[A D]

realnames, here is the story again since it got buried...

There is a long story about Indiana.com that I will now post.

Bought the domain for 50K at Afternic through Roger.
Paid in full to M. Ines.
Domain transferred to me.
I take ownership and build site.
From that point on its all flaky....

I get email from supposed previous owner.
I contact Roger, Roger basically does nothing.
Netsol takes the domain away from me and gives it back to owner without any enquiry.

At this point I am out 50K and the domain so I contact Netsol and they take it to their lawyers.

End result, they tell me too bad.

To this day:

The domain still point to my site.
I still get all the emails.
I don't own the domain.

That's all I know, sad but all true.

-=DCG=-

 

[JuniperPark]

AfterNic is certainly not looking good here. Their lack of diligence allowed the fraud to take place, and DotComGod should be fully compensated for his wasted time, expenses, legal fees, and any interest lost on that 50k IN ADDITION to the return of any commissions or fees paid.

The movement of a sum of money this large should be very easy to trace. Perhaps the IRS will help, since they track all transfers over 10k in US banks. They are often the organization that puts people behind bars. Drug dealers, for example, might get a few months for the drug violations, but YEARS for their failure to report the income. If anyone remembers Heidi Fleiss, the "Hollywood Madam", she spent almost no time in jail for her crime, but 5 years in prison for failure to report the income. Never mess with the IRS!

 

[proproject]

Steve, you have the insurance I presumed you have. We just disagree about what it covers. I hope we can simply agree to disagree on that.

Regardless of insurance, if you are publically saying that you guarantee title to the domains you sell, kudos to you! But frankly, I'm skeptical until I see it in your online agreement. You say you rely on Escrow.com. Here's what Escrow.com says about it in their Terms of Use...

WE MAKE NO WARRANTY WITH REGARD TO THE UNDERLYING TRANSACTION, ANY ITEMS OBTAINED BY YOU THROUGH THE USE OF THE SITE OR THE SERVICES, THAT THE SERVICES WILL MEET YOUR REQUIREMENTS, OR THAT THE SERVICES OR THE SITE WILL BE UNINTERRUPTED, TIMELY, OR ERROR FREE.

Enough said?

RealNames, Afternic is eager to help with an investigation, tracing funds, etc. I cannot answer why that was not initiated, except to say that Afternic does not have a cause for action. We sold a domain and got paid for it. We still don't know whether the registrar who took it back, or the seller, was at fault in Adam's losing the domain. That happened after we were involved.

 

[A D]

So Roger,

Are you saying you will provide no money back unless I sign a document that releases you from responsibilty and you will just pay me 5K. or are you gonna step up and do whats right here?

-=DCG=-

 

[proproject]

DCG, you're asking me to repeat myself. Yes. Here's what I said earlier today.

Our offer has been from the beginning to 1) return the sales fee and 2) assist with any investigation/action to recover the remaining funds that were sent to the seller. That offer was accepted verbally; our attorney drafted the paperwork and I sent it to Adam; the $5K is still set aside in the escrow account for this purpose. We're just waiting for Adam to sign and return.

 

[NameTower]

There is obviosuly no disagreement here that legally Afternic does not need to pay adam anything.

However the name was bought through Afternic.

Adam and probably everyone else would figure that contacts are verified as they are with sedo, and especially that after a sale was agreed on that this sort of thing would be verified.

The right thing to do is give Adam what he is asking for.

He isn't asking for the full $50 000 that he paid, but rather half that.

I would think this would be a lesson to afternic to verify all of the domain names listed on their site. and a full history search after the sale has been agreed to.

How about an agreement that suits both Adam and Afternic?

Maybe a free ad campaign on DNF for adam's compensation of $25000 USD?

Two of the biggest sites in the domain industry can sure come to common ground here.

I would hope that some action is taken.

 

[David G]

realnames, here is the story again since it got buried...=DCG=-

Thanks again but we we all fail to understand is why it appears (since no one will say so) that no formal criminal complaint has been filed and if so what is happening in that regards.

I know if that happened to me I will be visiting the FBI Office in person immidiately (and I mean right away - the first day) and be on the back of the FBI constantly until an arrest is made.

It would appear to be very easy to trace the money to the recipient thru the final bank who paid out the money to him as all banks keep excellent details on that for large sums of money. I am sure the mney did not fall into a Black Hole. Is there perhaps more to the story than it seems?

 

[A D]

Roger sent the money to the thief directly, so he has the banking info.

Roger do you have the banking information on the transaction so I can report it to the authorities?

There is nothing more to this story that I know of.

Also, I am in Canada and Roger is in the USA, I don't have an FBI office.

-=DCG=-

 

[David G]

Roger sent the money to the thief directly, so he has the banking info. Roger do you have the banking information on the transaction so I can report it to the authorities? -=DCG=-

It is quite amazing that no one has bothered to file a criminal complaint after all this time and so much money lost, simply incredible! Why in the world would Roger not do so?

Perhaps there is indeed more to the story, as I suspected may my be the case all along.

P.S. Though you are in Canada I believe you may still file a complaint with the US FBI directly, or at least with the Canadian authorities who will send it to the FBI I am sure. Personally I would file a criminal complaint against Afternic since they accepted your money and apparently are not cooperating as far as banking details go, etc. It's kinda surprising you still let Roger post here and even advertise at dnf as he has done in view of not helping you out and taking no legal action on your behalf.

 

[A D]

What did Roger care, he had/has my money and was out nothing...

all he cared about was me signing a document saying he would be off the hook for 5k.

-=DCG=-

 

[izopod]

DCG, izopod here.

Since it is painfully obvious there are no guarantee's on transfers at Afternic, or Escrow.com.... Why not create your own brokerage service? It seems so many of our members (including yourself) have lost a lot of time and money on other "services" and "reputable" brokers.

Sometimes when bad things happen, good ideas come to you. This is one area of the domain community that really needs some attention to.

I'd say go head-to-head with Afternic and the like for their brokerage business. Competition is what is lacking here, and is the very reason why Roger can say, "it's not our fault"---check the fine print.

DNF Brokerage Services LLC ???

 

[A D]

somebody just sent me this link http://afternicsucks.com/

lol

 

[jberryhill]

Anyway, I just wanted to say that we will indeed pay the sales fee to Adam, as he said we should (at least) do

Well you haven't now, have you.

You, Roger, have posted here that you "will indeed pay the sales fee to Adam, as he said we should".

But you didn't do that.

What you did instead was to have your lawyer draft up an agreement for Adam to sign which goes beyond what "he said we should."

So, please spare us the crap here. You either do what you say you are going to do, or else you post a public lie like the one quoted above.

If you are happy that your user agreement insulates you from liability in this matter, then go and be happy with it. But as things objectively stand right now, you promised to do one thing, and you have instead done something else. On top of that, you have the gall to lie to everyone on this forum about it.

You made an unconditional offer to disgorge the sales fee and pay it to Adam. You know how to write a check for $5k, and you know how to get it to Adam.

So, which is it going to be? Are you going to "pay the sales fee to Adam, as he said we should", or are you going to play games?

Do the right thing, Roger. Keep your word or be branded as someone who doesn't.

 

[actnow]

John, do you represent Adam?

Because, it sounds out of character that a lawyer would suggest to Roger to
just refund the fee without signing a "hold harmless" agreement.

 

[Deleted member 4749]

I almost bought lz.com on afternic. Thanks to my research I realized that it was stolen and was able to reverse the transaction and notify the rightful registrant, who is his turn got his domain back in 2 days.

 

[sellinbiz]

All this talk about insurance and brokers being held responsible got me wondering if Escrow would do anything about yuf.com. I bought it through Escrow in late March/early April then a month later it was pulled from my Registerfly account because it was apparently stolen. Escrow's response was about what I expected. We don't offer any kind of insurance. We recommend contacting the seller. They didn't offer to pursue legal actions, return the purchase price, return the fees they collected, or even contact the seller themselves. They completely passed it off. Oh well... at least it wasn't a $50,000 domain.