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Report TM Infringers Who Post on DNForum

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carlton

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With all that we know and have seen, domainers on the forums still post domains "for sale" that are obvious TM infringement. What is the position of DNForum on reporting such threads?

I'd really like to see the community call this stuff out when it happens ... and eradicate it. It's wrong when infringers list TM's in the forums and it degrades the entire industry. I've called a few people out already in threads and via PM. The ones I challenged knew they were exploiting TM domains and stopped when they got called on it. There's no way to justify dealing in brands and trademarks.

Blast away, or tell it like you see it.
 
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Sterling

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The best thing is to mind your business. This has been going on for years. Before your were born. You calling them out isn't gonna do nothing productive except start a flame. It was going on before your were born and will be there when you leave.

It is not your or my job to police it. It brings no benefits.
 

carlton

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It brings no benefits.
That TM infringement has gone on before we were born is immaterial to the discussion.

Sterling, do you agree with trademark infringement? Have you heard of the Lanham Act? No need to flame, just discuss.
 

INFORG

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Do you really think a message board is capable of opining on what is a TM and what is not? I agree that some are obvious, but how do you draw that line in a fair and consistent manner?

Even lawyers, courts, and WIPO can't agree or come up with a formula. "TM forum cop" certainly isn't a job I want to assign myself.

Just my .02
 

carlton

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Do you really think a message board is capable of opining on what is a TM and what is not? I agree that some are obvious, but how do you draw that line in a fair and consistent manner?

Even lawyers, courts, and WIPO can't agree or come up with a formula. "TM forum cop" certainly isn't a job I want to assign myself.

Just my .02
Obvious TM's: Verizon, Ford Motor, Exxon, Circuit City, Sears, Liz Claiborne, Burger King, Pepsi, Office Depot, etc. Not the in-betweens.
 

ilovedomains

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1.Your not breaking any laws until the entity who feels their trademark is being infringed complains to you.

2. No offense, but If the trademark holders dont care enough to complain, why do you care?
 

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I'd say that 75%+ of the people on this forum own certain TM typos/viols etc.

Obviously I'm pulling this number directly from my behind, but a lot of prominent members and most of new members have TM viols due to initial lack of knowledge and eventually due to their opinion on risk vs. return debate.
 

Focus

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With all that we know and have seen, domainers on the forums still post domains "for sale" that are obvious TM infringement. What is the position of DNForum on reporting such threads?

I'd really like to see the community call this stuff out when it happens ... and eradicate it. It's wrong when infringers list TM's in the forums and it degrades the entire industry. I've called a few people out already in threads and via PM. The ones I challenged knew they were exploiting TM domains and stopped when they got called on it. There's no way to justify dealing in brands and trademarks.

Blast away, or tell it like you see it.

You must not know what happened to the last snitch on this forum.
 

Sonny Banks

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Please man let this wonderful forum free.
We don't need a new cyber policeman here that snitch on every Tm domain for sale.
 

carlton

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I'd say that 75%+ of the people on this forum own certain TM typos/viols etc.

Obviously I'm pulling this number directly from my behind, but a lot of prominent members and most of new members have TM viols due to initial lack of knowledge and eventually due to their opinion on risk vs. return debate.
75%? Initial lack of knowledge is understandable. I'm referring to people who know it's wrong but persist anyway.

You must not know what happened to the last snitch on this forum.
No, I have no idea.

Focus, you offer up intelligent analysis. I'd like to hear your view on this, really. Is it true that the majority of members here trade in TM's? So far it seems posters have no problem with infringing.
 

Focus

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Carlton...let me just put it in a nice way...you don't sh*t where you eat.
 

draggar

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I think the big issue would be is who would consider what is a TM infringement?

Google might consider GoogleSupportForums.com an infringement but Atari might not mind someone running AtariSupportForums.com

I think people do it because of the risks and the potential gains. Wasn't it acknowledged the other day that one of the big domainers has or had quite a few TM domains?
 

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Draggar..not one...a lot of top companies have TMs. I'm not talking about top 5 - but I know of at least 3 in the top 25 companies by domain # ownership which have quite large and profitable TM portfolios.
 

carlton

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Draggar..not one...a lot of top companies have TMs. I'm not talking about top 5 - but I know of at least 3 in the top 25 companies by domain # ownership which have quite large and profitable TM portfolios.
Sounds that it's OK because big fish do it? Some of them are getting sued into stratosphere, and they will lose.

Google might consider GoogleSupportForums.com an infringement but Atari might not mind someone running AtariSupportForums.com
This is a good example of the fuzzy line and what may be considered fair use. My thinking was along the line of pure names and obvious typos of well-established trademarks that don't fall under fair use.

Carlton...let me just put it in a nice way...you don't sh*t where you eat.
Just noticed your sig. I'm assuming you deal in typos of TM's? I'm now getting the context on your comments. I don't spend as much time here as most. Perhaps more of this goes on at DNF than I realized.
 

draggar

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My point was who are we to decide what is OK and what isn't OK.

Sure, it's one thing if we see someone selling Google.me here and we see it often enough in the appraisal section, which is called out as a TM. I think every person here would agree that domain is a TM issue.

Now Google thought that Googleforums.com was a TM or they needed it to protect their TM (hence why they have it) but Samsung does not own SamsungForums.com (different everything in the WhoIs information).

So, generally, whether or not something is infringing on someone else's TM (and this goes way beyond domains) seems to be up to the TM holder. Some are more lax while others are militant about it. So, who are we (unless we're the TM holder) to decide? That's up to the TM holder to take notice and decide if they are going to persue it and up to the courts or WIPO to decide.

People can call them out but, as many of us would agree (and I only said one because it was recently discussed here) that many of the big domainers (and many smaller ones) own TM domains. If one person starts to open their mouth about it then the others will star tto isolate them and not do business with them. I guess we could consider this like a domainer mafia. (Basically what Focus said but nicer ;) ).
 

Sonny Banks

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Carlton what's your problem if other peoples dealing with TM domains?
You don't like TM names? Don't deal with.
But please don't make the cop of the situation...everyone do what want do.
 

acronym007

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We cannot police those issues here or anywhere. People that abuse TM domains are already marked by their peers by their habitual behavior nothing to worry about.

TM's in many cases are a matter of legal opinion and should be taken up the by the appropriate authorities. eBay, for example goes after to everyone that uses the word bay in their domain which I think absurd. Also something that many people fail to understand is that a domain name alone does not constitute infringement. For example owning apple.com would not constitute a TM infringement. Infringement would depend on the use of the word.
 

Focus

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In life you have to realize that things have a way of working themselves out, and they always do...when you interrupt that process through being nosy, snitching on others, or reporting tm names that someone might have invested alot of money into just days or weeks before (possibly hard earned money saved for a long period of time) you are in essence playing the judge & jury of whats right & wrong and you might not even know all the facts or contributing factors that are really necessary to make that determination. Maybe that person is counting on that tm typo to pay their rent and keep their head above water, maybe they have a newborn baby at home and recently were laid off from their job they faithfully worked at for 10 years hoping to get ahead only to eventually get shit on and realize they had just been spinning their wheels the whole time and living in a world of concepts & promises that rarely ever actually delivers. Maybe someone is putting food on the table with that extra ppc money or working to have a more generic and "acceptable" stream of income, it's widely known that most people who get to the top have to bend a few rules along the way to do it.

I am not saying it's right or wrong because it's not my place to do so. We are all brothers & sisters here, we all are doing the best we can to make it in life as wars rage around us and economical problems seem to increase by the day in our world. Maybe the company that the said domainer has typos of are scumbags and doing alot of unethical things to their customers or overcharging for services & products comparatively speaking. Maybe that said company pays child labor workers pennies overseas to make their shirts or designer clothes and in turn loses a few thousand a month to typosquatters from that same country in a twist on ironic justice..it's a big circle man and a very big can of worms. Things are the way they are because that's how they are meant to be, when you start trying to play the judge & the jury or GOD over other people just trying to make a living or trying to earn a dollar (esp. in these very hard times) you are starting your way down a very slippery slope that might end in some bad karma really taking a big bite out of your a**! There are ALOT of very effective remedies in place for all TM holders to recover their domain names and in over 90% of the wipo cases they, the tm holder/complaintant usually prevails. They pay lawyers money to do this and manage their online interests, computer analysts have jobs as a result to do research and collect information, marketing directors have to actually do their jobs and register product names prior to launches, assistants have to answer phones and send emails, and so on a so forth.

It's kind of like the war on drugs in the USA, because yes it's all "illegal" so to speak..but without it, tens of thousands of people would not get a paycheck or have a job & be able to provide for their families and our government would lose hundreds of millions of dollars in seized annual assets & money. Without the typo industry and ppc income revenue streams the domain market would not be what it is..people would not be spending the money they do at domain auctions online and off. Domain registrations would be just a fraction of what they are currently..it's like a food chain that keeps circulating and being re-invested back into it's self. You don't want to be the person who thinks they are being the "do gooder" when in fact you might actually cause alot more damage than you could even imagine. For all of you that did not get into domains until recently, let me remind you where this business evolved from..the simple rule of finders keepers. The age old rule of early bird gets the worm, first come..first served. TM laws evolved only AFTER companies neglected to properly manage their domains & online indentities to begin with, and some just got to the table later than others.

At one point in time if you owned CNN.com and you registered it before they did, they had to buy it from you. Why do you think certain people rushed to register valuable domain names back in the mid to late 90's? Speculation, investment, risk vs. reward, the American & the worldwide dream of making something out of nothing. This is all just my opinion..take it for what it's worth. I also believe if you have tm names & typos and you run into issues with the holder of the TM that you should hand the names over and press on with business, but in the meantime if you are making some extra cash and know the risks involved then more power to you because the search engines that we know & love and companies like microsoft that preach down to the masses about tm domains and cybersquatting are the biggest players of all in this arena and everyone is fighting for the market & the money. The said "big boys" already have all the token lawsuits, high price lawyers, corporate manuevers, & registrar & search engine loopholes & escape clauses to operate within and make the same click money me or you might make from the same typo. Why is it ok for them and not for us? Don't take away what little we have left of freedom to earn some easy money online. Let the chips fall where they may amongst us all and good luck to all domainers no matter what they do, that includes Google & Microsoft too. :hippie:
 
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Theo

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Actually, there is a policy on famous trademarks, like Microsoft-owned, that Adam established at some point. He needs to confirm that. It goes back to the days of the MSFT attorney who became a member here.
 
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