closed Solar-Energy.com

[bmugford]

P.S. Isn't 2k a lot more than the 5% being discussed at the time?

Yeah. It is way over 5% of my appraisal.
But I deal with end users daily and am virtually certain I could sell this for much more.

There is only one SolarEnergy.com, and it is out of the budget or 99%+ of the buyers. Anything else is a second option.
Solar-Energy.com is one of the best "second options".

Brad

 

[katherine]

Maybe but the problem is will the hyphentated version get any traffic?

Of course it will.
But it will have to compensate the lack of type-in with SEO.
A great deal of navigation goes through search engines, and few domains get 100% type-in traffic. That's why the type-in aspect is sometimes overrated by domainers. The domain can still be viable in spite of its one weakness.

 

[Gerry]

Of course it will.
But it will have to compensate the lack of type-in with SEO.

Bingo. And right now is prime time to sell or develop with it's non-hyphenated counterpart a parked page. Perfect time to dominate.

---------- Post added at 05:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:57 PM ----------

Even if that "Coming Soon" site stays up on the non-hyphenated SolarEnergy.com...

It is SEO. All about SEO. Not what people are going to type in the browser bar because most people would not go directly to the browser bar and type in SolarEnergy.com. The exact same is true for the hyphenated version.

It boils down to what people search for in the search bars of Google, Bing, Yahoo, Baidu, and others. And since a hyphen is viewed as a space in the search algorithms, the results would show both hyphenated, abbreviated (prefix/suffix) and non-hyphenated names in the search results.

And since most major search engines frown upon and de-rank static pages, a site of the hyphenated version would dominate that top spot in all the search engines in no time at all with proper SEO.

Guessing that 70% to 80% of the traffic would be from people doing a search for solar energy, rather than direct type ins of SolarEnergy.com. Even SolarEnergy.com does not rank number one in the search engines for solar energy...and that's a damn shame for them if you want to talk about lost dollars and revenue.

Also, why would a hyphenated name have to be ranked in Alexa TOP 500 or top 100 sold names to be valuable? Because that is what it would take to convince you and others of inherent value? The name stands on its own accord and that is what inherent value is all about. SolarEnergy.com would be perhaps a strong contender for 7 figures. The hyphenated version would therefore become a strong contender for the alternative.

The same is true for a name like ecommerce.com and e-commerce.com, solarpanels.com and solar-panels. Such a waste of great names.

Here's an example of what good SEO can do; go to the google search bar and enter green energy. Such a hot button topic.

Where is GreenEnergy.com located?

I believe the results you see is going to vary on where you live. But what I see is www.green-energy-news.com at number 3 and www.green-e.org at number 8. That is out of over 76 million results.

Now do search for "green energy". What do you see?

Out of 25mil + results, I see:

#3 www.green-energy-news.com/
#4 www.huffingtonpost.com/news/renewable-energy
#5 bx.businessweek.com/green-energy
#8 www.green-e.org/

I am showing this as a point to illustrate what a site with good SEO can do for any name, any extension when the others extensions (hyphenated/non-hyphenated) are not current, not relevant, and static pages. In other words, parked pages.

In fact, GreenEnergy.com does not even appear in the first 10 pages (100 results) for the google search terms green energy or "green energy". That is an absolute damn shame.

So tell me again, who's losing money? Who's losing traffic? If the .com is not even appearing in the top 100 searches for its own search term, are any of you going to step up and convince a business person that a site like www.green-energy-news.com is losing traffic and revenue to GreenEnergy.com when that generic search term does not even appear in the top search results for itself?

 

[bmugford]

Here's an example of what good SEO can do; go to the google search bar and enter green energy. Such a hot button topic.

Where is GreenEnergy.com located?

I believe the results you see is going to vary on where you live. But what I see is www.green-energy-news.com at number 3 and www.green-e.org at number 8. That is out of over 76 million results.

Now do search for "green energy". What do you see?

Out of 25mil + results, I see:

#3 www.green-energy-news.com/
#4 www.huffingtonpost.com/news/renewable-energy
#5 bx.businessweek.com/green-energy
#8 www.green-e.org/

I am showing this as a point to illustrate what a site with good SEO can do for any name, any extension when the others extensions (hyphenated/non-hyphenated) are not current, not relevant, and static pages. In other words, parked pages.

In fact, GreenEnergy.com does not even appear in the first 10 pages (100 results) for the google search terms green energy or "green energy". That is an absolute damn shame.

So tell me again, who's losing money? Who's losing traffic? If the .com is not even appearing in the top 100 searches for its own search term, are any of you going to step up and convince a business person that a site like www.green-energy-news.com is losing traffic and revenue to GreenEnergy.com when that generic search term does not even appear in the top search results for itself?

Good example. GreenEnergy.com is an amazing domain but look at the limited natural traffic.

Alexa Ranked 10,154,323
Compete shows under 400 visits/month.

"GreenEnergy.com" will not index any better than "Green-Energy.com", where the vast majority of traffic comes from.

Million dollar domains are are nice, but companies like BuyDomains.com have built a business selling affordable quality domains to the average buyer.
There is a reason Toyota is the largest car maker in the world and Ferrari is not.

Brad

 

[Gerry]

Here's where good usability studies come into play.

Generally, the consumer is going to do a search for a certain term when they want some information. Brands like ebay.com and others are not really going to depend heavily on search results.

Usability studies can be very easy or very complex, depending on what it is you want to accomplish.

The easiest method is to monitor yourself and your own habits when you are the consumer and you are doing a generalized search.

I'll bet you forget all about being a domainer when you want information. I'll bet you don't go to the browser search bar and type in energysavinglightbulbs.com when you want information about energy saving light bulbs. You, if like most people searching for information, will go to google or yahoo or what ever you like and do a general search.

Unfortunately, if unlike most people, you want to convince me that your would directly enter energysavinglightbulbs.com - you are going to end up on what appears to be a site but is pretty much a portal, somewhat akin to shopzilla or another affiliate. You still do not get any information about the product, which was your goal.

But, if you are like most consumers and would do a search for energy saving light bulbs, you'll find sites that not only offer the product but also pricing, information, various types, and so on.

And, curiously again...energysavinglightbulbs.com does not even appear in the top 100 results (10 pages) for the generalized search term energy saving light bulbs. Honestly, I don't know how much more specific you would have to be in order to see this general terms in the search results.

So, getting back to your own habits and your own usability standards, how many pages do you typically go into the google search results? 3? 4? 5? Seriously, if you are not on the first few pages, you are not going to be found. There is another HUGE method of being ranked and found and that is referrals. Referrals (true link backs on other relevant sites) can be a mega boost in your own rankings and usage. When you are fortunate enough that another entity is writing about your product or services and making a recommendation to your site, such referrals can be immeasurable (actually, in google analytics they are measurable) in terms of discovery. I am not talking about just a blogroll or link exchange. I am talking about an actual referral (with links) back to your site.

If you want to be a domainer, then be a domainer. Don't worry about ranking, don't worry about SEO, don't worry about your parked pages getting found (they won't), and don't worry about getting too highly ranked in the search engines (they won't).

I realize this is a domainer forum. But it is also evident from many comments that people have no idea what an end-user is, what SEO can do, how far parked domains have fallen, and how easy it is to fall off the charts in terms of generalized searches.

 

[eeedc]

The hyphen is not a problem for people who just want it as a keyword PPC site, but it's a huge problem for a real company. I doubt a real company would buy it at any price. One of the PPC people here should be able to tell you what it's worth as a keyword.

I guess I have to explain myself - explain my first post:

If you are "real" company with REPEAT customers, you need a BRAND name that customers can remember. DOCWidgets would be a brand name. Cheap Widgets might be a good search term, but it's not a good brand name, since anyone can say they sell "cheap widgets," and "Cheap hyphen Widgets" is even worse as a brand.

If you have repeat customers or even if customers don't buy on the first visit, you want people to REMEMBER your BRAND name, DOCWidgets and either type DOCWidgets into the toolbar or at worse into Google where they would see your name first AND some other competitors also. It's hard to remember if a term has a hyphen in it or not.

I don't deny that keyword-search-terms have some value, but hyphens have never or almost never shown up on the top 100/500/1000 sites as far as I can remember.

And speaking of the value of a search term, how do you buy "solar energy" online anyway? Do they ship solar energy to you by UPS. I think you can buy solar cells and solar panels online, but not solar energy. It might not even be a first-tier hyphenatd name.

---------- Post added at 01:13 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:10 AM ----------

Isn't/Wasn't someone trying to sell Power.com for a couple of million dollars in the spring? Overpriced IMHO, but it would make a decent name, but I don't think one can sell power or energy online. You can sell clicks about power or energy.

 

[Gerry]

If you are "real" company with REPEAT customers, you need a BRAND name that customers can remember.

Quickly, without looking at your history or bookmarks, tell me every site you have visited today or have visited in the past.

That is what bookmarks are for. That is what toolbars are for. Little icons or brief bullet points to remind you what the site is and what it is about.

Do you want to discuss brands? I can do that.

As for your question about buying solar energy online, perhaps you heard of a company named Enron. They had a website. They sold energy. They sold energy online. They traded energy online. They bought, sold, and traded energy online. They were energy brokers. Crooked perhaps, but nevertheless energy brokers.

Please don't say, yeah, but Enron was a brand. Yes, they were a brand that essentially was unheard of until the big bookkeeping error. BIG. Same with Solyndra. A brand no one heard of until the news broke.

Back to solar energy...

How about selling solar energy? Did you know you can sell the excess to your local utility company? Even excess wind or water power.

Today, you want to go solar, you want solar energy, you want a solar hot water system, you want to run a solar powered electrical generator, you want to sell excess energy to the local utility, you want set up solar panels. Where do you start? Which brand do you buy? Who do you get to install them? Rutgers installed a multimillion dollar system (250 million, I believe). I imagine before they made their decision, they researched solar power online and solar panels (as well as utilized their own faculty, research, and peer reviews). Unfortunately for the US makers, they went with the Chinese for panels and installation and maintenance. A real blow to the US solar industry in that regard.

Yup, all the above happens. And it all can start with a search. The owner of Solar-Energy can encompass all the above, perhaps even be a free-standing business with salespeople and solar energy brokers. Perhaps even sell bundled packages of the panels, installations, maintenance contracts, etc.

Meanwhile, I'd love to own either the hyphenated or non-hyphenated name. Gems just waiting to be polished.



And, for your comments about not be able to sell power online...ask the brits about this. Here in the states, we are pretty much stuck with the local utility. Some states and nations are lucky to have options. Power.com plays well into the hands of those that have options. Information site, rate charts comparisons side by side, service areas, sign up here please. Yup, you can buy power online.

Not sure why you are stuck in this click mode. There is real money to be made.

 

[eeedc]

You obviously have a 100% SEO-centric view of the world, which I guess applies if all you do is sell PPC clicks.
But there is a saying, "Live by Google, die by Google."
When Google figures out a SEO "trick" to boost SEO, such as when cheap PPC sites start sites such has "Make-Money-With-Clicks.com," it's just a matter of time before people and Google realize such sites are usually not worth reading and lower their SEO results. I would not count on "Solar-Energy.com" being as good as "SolarEnergy.com" for SEO forever (die by Google) or any other SEO trick lasting forever.

You do realize the "Enron" of your example is a brand name. Enron or any other major power company did not change their name to Power.com (unsold/unused) or Energy.com (a forum with 200 posts total). A cheap PPC site would put up a cheap page on Power.com or Energy.com, but I doubt a real power company would take it - they have not taken them yet.

 

[Gerry]

You obviously have a 100% SEO-centric view of the world, which I guess applies if all you do is sell PPC clicks.
But there is a saying, "Live by Google, die by Google."
When Google figures out a SEO "trick" to boost SEO, such as when cheap PPC sites start sites such has "Make-Money-With-Clicks.com," it's just a matter of time before people and Google realize such sites are usually not worth reading and lower their SEO results. I would not count on "Solar-Energy.com" being as good as "SolarEnergy.com" for SEO forever (die by Google) or any other SEO trick lasting forever.

You do realize the "Enron" of your example is a brand name. Enron or any other major power company did not change their name to Power.com (unsold/unused) or Energy.com (a forum with 200 posts total). A cheap PPC site would put up a cheap page on Power.com or Energy.com, but I doubt a real power company would take it - they have not taken them yet.

SEO is not a trick. Perhaps you should read on it. I'm reading up on it. I am no expert as I must pass that baton on to others here (and elsewhere).

Enron. Yes, Enron was a brand as you wanted to discuss brands. You also posed the question about buying power online. I used Enron as an example of doing just that. Power brokers. They sold power. You inferred that no one buys power online. I used them as an historical example and then gave the current example of many in other countries being capable of buying power online by choosing who will be their electrical provider.

Not sure what example would satisfy you as none seem to satisfy you.

It reminds me of a little kid who asks a question, is given an answer and then asks another question, yeah, but or what if?

Good luck with your shrewd business, management, and marketing skills.

Speaking of shrewd, where does that fall in the ranking on google for the word shrewd? Such a generic gem should be first, don't you think? And if not, then why not?

---------- Post added at 11:06 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:29 AM ----------

Here is a site I visit quite often and just found this article posted today.

Google CTR study: top three positions deliver 35% of traffic

If SEO is a trick, its a very valid and valuable trick.

The article illustrates the value of ranking. Postions 1, 2, 3 on your search results account for 35% of all visits. The charts also go on to show the results for the first 10 positions. Basically, if you are not in those first page results, your chances of discovery dwindle.

Point is, no matter how generic of a domain you have, no matter how great the keyword, look at the examples I have posted. You will see google no longer ranks on search term alone but rather focuses on content.

There is also a key statement in there about Google own keyword search tool. Even those results have to be considered as less than accurate.

 

[eeedc]

So if the top three positions deliver 35% of all traffic,
the the bottom seven positions deliver 65% of all traffic and it's just as good to be in the bottom.

Actaully, it's just a very badly worded title. A better worded title would say be "70% of clicks on Google go to top three" (many people don't click and do another search or go elsewhere - maybe to a brand name)
(I have only eyeballed the number and have not even taken the time to spell check this)

 

[Gerry]

So if the top three positions deliver 35% of all traffic,
the the bottom seven positions deliver 65% of all traffic and it's just as good to be in the bottom.

Actaully, it's just a very badly worded title. A better worded title would say be "70% of clicks on Google go to top three" (many people don't click and do another search or go elsewhere - maybe to a brand name)
(I have only eyeballed the number and have not even taken the time to spell check this)

Wow, you really, really, really need to re-read that article, your math, and study SEO.

Yes, if there are only 10 total pages in a google search, then 1, 2, 3 get 35% and 4 thru 10 get 65%. In that scenario, your math is correct.

That's not a real world.

If a search result returns 76,000,000 links on google, if 35% of traffic goes to the top three, then 65% is divided up amongst the remaining 75,999,997 results. If you are happy being in that "bottom seven" (the remaining 65% amongst the other 75,999,997 sites/links competing for attention), good luck with that.

 

[David G]

Makes sense. The scenario only involves the traffic originating from first page of search results.

 

[Gerry]

Makes sense. Thie scenario only involves the stats traffic going to the first pageof results.

Not sure which math model you are agreeing with.

A search result that only has 10 links in an unreal worldly scenario? or a real world scenario in which something like solar energy has 62,500,000 results.

If someone is happy sharing for attention in the remaining sixty-one million, four hundred ninety-nine thousand, nine hundred and ninety-seven results, then that is what matters...being happy competing for attention with 61,499,997 other site/domain owners.

Personally, when the search results are that high I strive to make it into at least the first 5 pages (50 results). From a consumer's point of view, the chances of going more than 5 pages deep in a search is very small and get smaller with each subsequent page (10 results).

The focus (from the perspective of getting seen and visible) is to be in that top tier that is visited by 35% of the traffic.

The same goes for a domain name. These numbers should give concrete proof of the steep decline in parking revenue. Even a generic word or phrase needs to be up near the top.

As stellar of a phrase and hot topic solar energy is, Solar Energy dot com is not even in the top 3. Or top 100 (10 pages) or top 200 (20 pages) of results on google.

---------- Post added at 02:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:55 PM ----------

My apologies. This is a thread about Solar-Energy.com.

I have already stated how much I like this and the potential for domination of the search results if someone was to build a site.

Everyone wants to see a return on investment. Site creation is step one in achieving a good ROI.

---------- Post added at 04:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:59 PM ----------

Hello.

To those who have been PMing me, I want to say that just because I am posting in an energy related thread, I do not:

• I do not want to buy your energy related domains
• I do not want to sell your energy related domains
• I do not want to broker your energy related domains

Please stop PMing me your lists for sale.

 

[Bill F.]

Estibot is usually high. I have an estibot valuation of $4,500 for a domain name which I am trying to sell here for mid $XXX.
http://www.dnforum.com/f5/seemly-co...-directory-dmoz-aged-links-thread-467383.html

I would have to disagree in this case. In my opinion, Estibot is usually too low when it comes to hyphenated names - they've obviously factored in the hyphen as a real deal killer. Which is good, since it lessens competition on the dropping names. As others have said, I've never had an end user comment on a hyphen during negotiations.

 

[WhoDatDog]

If 20 SEO geniuses of equal talent work their magic, which one gets the best placing? SEO is a never-ending goose chase and cat and mouse game with Google, whereas regular dotcom names that get at least one human being out of 7 billion who will type it in are already at an advantage.

You cannot advertise a hyphen name. Imagine hearing a hypenated name on a radio ad. Furthermore, Solar-Energy is not going to be the type of site where a lot of commerce is going to take place. It is not like Las-Vegas.com, or Online-Casino.com. Those two names make sense. New-York.com makes sense.

The appraisal sites will not guarantee 5 percent of their appraisal. End of story. If someone on here says they are willing to pay 2K for this worthless name then that is their stupidity and they can't be stopped, but that means the name is worth at least 2K if the offer is legitimate.

It is almost like talking to a brick wall around here. It is absolutely stunning how many people don't "get it". It is almost criminal, actually. Maybe I could put it better for some of you. Think of a domain name like you would think of a person trying to get a date. You guys act like somebody working at the local mall could land a supermodel. Yes, in your world that must seem like a possibility. But in the real world, Tom Brady, Brad Pitt, and George Clooney will get the girl. That is where I would put my money, on reality, not on some hypothetical that has a very low chance of happening.

So, if you have someone like Tom Brady who smokes, does drugs, and treats women with disrespect, he will still ALWAYS have more chances in the dating world than the guy who works at the mall, has great moral character, and is nice to women. That is how STRONG his advantage is. He has mind share when it comes to women. Much like a great dotcom name has a huge advantage in commerce. The guy who works at the mall is the hyphenated domain name, or the 3rd rate loser extension domain name, and even if he does everything perfect, he still won't be able to compete with Tom Brady. Tom Brady/Generic Dotcom will always be King, and he will crush the guy at the mall every time.

That's how the world works.

 

[Gerry]

If someone on here says they are willing to pay 2K for this worthless name then that is their stupidity and they can't be stopped, but that means the name is worth at least 2K if the offer is legitimate.

Seems like every thread dealing with an appraisal, in your mind its worthless. Always worthless.

---------- Post added at 10:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:15 PM ----------

If 20 SEO geniuses of equal talent work their magic, which one gets the best placing?

I really don't need or want the help of 20 geniuses. That's a committee.

 

[David G]

Not sure which math model you are agreeing with.

I was agreeing with the model of the previous post which was in fact your math!

 

[Gerry]

That's how the world works.

This is how the real business world works.

You want how much for the name?

That's okay. We'll look at alternatives.

---------- Post added at 10:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:18 PM ----------

You cannot advertise a hyphen name. Imagine hearing a hypenated name on a radio ad.

Um, the real world I live in stopped putting money into radio advertising 5 to 6 years ago. Perhaps longer.

Anybody that puts their money into radio advertising is pissing into a fan blowing back on them wondering when did it start raining?

---------- Post added at 10:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:21 PM ----------

I was agreeing with the model of the previous post which was in fact your math!

Thanks. I wish it was 1995 and you only had to compete against 6 or 7 other geeks for top ranking. Not even sure if then anyone even considered it.

 

[bmugford]

The appraisal sites will not guarantee 5 percent of their appraisal. End of story. If someone on here says they are willing to pay 2K for this worthless name then that is their stupidity and they can't be stopped, but that means the name is worth at least 2K if the offer is legitimate.

A domains value is derived from more than just your personal opinion.
My offer is legit and I would be happy to pay $2K, which is peanuts for it.

It is almost like talking to a brick wall around here. It is absolutely stunning how many people don't "get it". It is almost criminal, actually.

The people who "don't get it" are the ones who don't see this as a valuable domain.

Many people are stuck in a domainer view. They don't know what they don't know.

Brad

 

[Gerry]

A domains value is derived from more than just your personal opinion.
My offer is legit and I would be happy to pay $2K, which is peanuts for it.



The people who "don't get it" are the ones who don't see this as a valuable domain.

Many people are stuck in a domainer view. They don't know what they don't know.

Brad

And, honestly...doubtful people would be listening to radio or clicking through the television channels to find information on solar energy.

Some things are just made for the web.

People interested in solar energy are going to start their search on the internet.

Yes. It really is that simple.