closed Solar-Energy.com

[Bill F.]

So, if you have someone like Tom Brady who smokes, does drugs, and treats women with disrespect, he will still ALWAYS have more chances in the dating world than the guy who works at the mall, has great moral character, and is nice to women.

Not to pile on, but between "smokes, does drugs, and treats women with disrespect" and "has great moral character, and is nice to women," I think you'd be surprised how many women would go for the former - even if he worked at a mall.
End users are funny

 

[WhoDatDog]

And, honestly...doubtful people would be listening to radio or clicking through the television channels to find information on solar energy.

Some things are just made for the web.

People interested in solar energy are going to start their search on the internet.

Yes. It really is that simple.

You make a good point that Solar Energy is the type of thing that people will look up on the web. But that still gets us back to what the value is, and I still don't see the huge difference between Solar-Energy.com with one hyphen, or Solar--Energy.com with two hyphens, since the only way you are going to find out about the site is from a web search anyways.

And why is Solar-Energy.com worth real money, when a host of logical alternatives wouldn't be? Why wouldn't SolarEnergyFacts.com without the hyphen be just as good, or even SolarEnergyHome.com.

I'm not seeing where that hyphen brings value to the table. If anything, it just has to take away a ton of value. The name really doesn't bring something to the business that is worth real money. If you have five people who want to put up a solar energy site or start a business involving solar energy, the four who missed out on Solar-Energy.com will hardly lose any sleep. They are at no disadvantage whatsoever because someone else has this clunker of a name, since as you and others have said, the SEO is what matters.

If you really look at the mindset of the consumer, you have to be honest and admit that a hyphenated name like this has no authority. It is kind of like the .biz entension. Now, if you had 10 million dollars to invest could you really invest it with someone who had a site at the .biz extension? That is a legit question. The .biz site lets you know that whomever has the site is much more likely to be an amateur than someone with the dotcom. That is powerful.

Just like generic email address like Yahoo or Gmail take away from professional correspendence a bit. If you were going to sell you house for a few million dollars and your broker uses a yahoo email address instead of an AOL one, then that might not be a deal breaker, but it tells part of the story, and it takes away from it. If your wife was going to have plastic surgery and her doctor used a yahoo email address or had a site at a .biz extension, the warning signs would go off. This is reality. There is legitimacy with dotcom (without hyphens). The better the name you have, the more authority and legitimacy you get right off the bat. There are exceptions, but they just prove the rule.

It is powerful stuff and you can ignore it at your own peril. When using loser extensions or hyphenated names, the bigger your site gets the more you help out the guy who has the dotcom, or the name without the hyphen.

Most UDRP's involve the dotcom. You won't find many hyphenated names being challenged by way of UDRP. I wonder why that is? Unless someone is blatently confusing the public then nobody cares. Unless someone was selling counterfeit watches at Mens-Rolex-Watches.com then you can believe that Rolex couldn't care less that you registered the name. They know that nobody on planet earth is ever going to type that in. Not a single person out of 7 billion. So they don't care if you register it and do nothing with it. But they know that a certain number of people will type into the browser Mens Rolex Watches, so there is at least a chance they might want it.

This isn't rocket science here.

 

[katherine]

I still don't see the huge difference between Solar-Energy.com with one hyphen, or Solar--Energy.com with two hyphens, since the only way you are going to find out about the site is from a web search anyways.

As domainers we don't shape the tastes and preferences of end users.
The point is that hyphenated domains are accepted and even liked by end users (in particular when the combo is very strong).
Double hyphens are not.
That is why you'll see sales of hyphenated domains on a regular basis.
But you never see sales of double hyphen domains.
What we think doesn't matter. What's important is what end users like and are willing to buy.

If you really look at the mindset of the consumer, you have to be honest and admit that a hyphenated name like this has no authority. It is kind of like the .biz entension. Now, if you had 10 million dollars to invest could you really invest it with someone who had a site at the .biz extension? That is a legit question. The .biz site lets you know that whomever has the site is much more likely to be an amateur than someone with the dotcom. That is powerful.

Most end users prefer a poor/long .com over a shorter .biz domain.
It's another Internet fact.


I also think there is a cultural bias here.

Hyphenated domains are not popular in the US but the Europeans for example will look at them more favorably.
You're looking at the whole domaining thing with a heavy US mindset imo.

 

[WhoDatDog]

Name me one site that the average Joe knows about that uses a hyphen. There are none that I know of. Every major site that is recognized throughout the world omits the hyphen.

By all means, try to overcome that and build your site on a hyphenated name. You can be the first human being out of 7 billion who created a site on a hyphenated name that was accepted by the masses. I can think of ZERO hypenated name sites that are of any significance at all.

Go ahead and Google some examples, as that will just prove my point. You people are just too much. It is pretty sad, because what happens is that you end up dragging new domainers into your horseshit ideas, and the result is that you create Ghost Town forums like this one. Bad ideas, and unethical domainers destroyed this forum, so now you are left to talking about the value of hyphenated names and how great they are. The reality is that if you approached 100,000 random people on the street they could not name you one site that is located on a hyphenated name.

 

[Gerry]

Name me one site that the average Joe knows about that uses a hyphen.

Take the domainer out of you.

You, are a consumer. You know nothing about domain names. You, are going to do a search for solar panels.

Are you going to tell me that you, as a consumer who knows nothing about domains, are going to ignore, overlook, bypass, not click on a link because it has a hyphen?

View attachment solar 1.jpg

This is page one of the search for solar energy.

Okay, as a consumer you can recognize ads and ignore them. So perhaps you will not click on the first hyphen appearing in the ads (www.southern-energy.com)



Later, still on page one - at the number 8 spot we see this (www.affordable-solar.com):

View attachment solar 2.jpg

Are you going to tell us you would NOT click on that link because it DOES have a hyphen?

And are you going to convince consumer to CLICK NO HYPHENS?


Earlier you used the example of not hearing a hyphenated name on the radio.

Give consumers some credit, ok?

If they want solar panels or concrete or water delivered to their house, they are not going to listen to the radio hoping to hear and ad. They are not going to watch TV waiting for an ad to appear. They may look it up in the yellow pages if they can find the phone book. Most of all, they will use their computer to do a search for those products or services.

Sorry, but you are not going to convince me or any one else that consumers do not use hyphenated names. Because most likely the consumer cares the least about the domain name, the domain extension, or whether it has a hyphen or not. They care most about the product they are looking for. If they like the site and the information they find, they will bookmark the site and STILL may never know what the URL address is. All they will need to know for further or future reference is what the site was about and perhaps recognize the favicon.

Hyphens do not matter in the real world because in the real world what matters most is results and satisfaction and instant gratification.

 

[katherine]

Name me one site that the average Joe knows about that uses a hyphen. There are none that I know of. Every major site that is recognized throughout the world omits the hyphen.

Yes, the hyphen is not good for branding. That is my opinion. In particular if we're talking about the TOP 100 domains.
That doesn't mean a domain can't be viable, just because it's not 'brandable' or it will never be a household name.

I can think of ZERO hypenated name sites that are of any significance at all.

You could be right. Let's assume for a moment there are no major websites on a hyphenated name.
Again, we are not talking about the next google. We are talking about names that might very well remain 'low profile' but could still be successful in their own niche.
Hyphenated names do sell on a regular basis. Not as much as their non-hyphenated counterparts but there is a market for the right keywords.

The reality is that if you approached 100,000 random people on the street they could not name you one site that is located on a hyphenated name.

You could as well approach those people, and ask them to name the .net/.org website they last visited.
Hint: Internet users will most often not notice or remember the URL of any website that was reached through a search engine :yes:

Now I know what you must be thinking: .net/.org are crap extensions because they don't get much type-in :lol:

 

[David G]

I am not 100% positive but think I recall several years ago Wal*Mart used www.wal-mart.com as their primary domain. Today it redirects to the non-hyphenated version. At that time believe it was the first time (and also last time) I remember a hyphenated name used by a majror brand.

 

[Gerry]

I was looking something up in another appraisal thread http://www.dnforum.com/f4/iwallstreet-org-thread-467925.html#post2046415

wall-street.com comes in number 7 out of 1,290,000,000 (that is over 1 billion results) in a general search for wall street.

 

[WhoDatDog]

Take the domainer out of you.

You, are a consumer. You know nothing about domain names. You, are going to do a search for solar panels.

Are you going to tell me that you, as a consumer who knows nothing about domains, are going to ignore, overlook, bypass, not click on a link because it has a hyphen?

View attachment 860

This is page one of the search for solar energy.

Okay, as a consumer you can recognize ads and ignore them. So perhaps you will not click on the first hyphen appearing in the ads (www.southern-energy.com)



Later, still on page one - at the number 8 spot we see this (www.affordable-solar.com):

View attachment 861

Are you going to tell us you would NOT click on that link because it DOES have a hyphen?

And are you going to convince consumer to CLICK NO HYPHENS?


Earlier you used the example of not hearing a hyphenated name on the radio.

Give consumers some credit, ok?

If they want solar panels or concrete or water delivered to their house, they are not going to listen to the radio hoping to hear and ad. They are not going to watch TV waiting for an ad to appear. They may look it up in the yellow pages if they can find the phone book. Most of all, they will use their computer to do a search for those products or services.

Sorry, but you are not going to convince me or any one else that consumers do not use hyphenated names. Because most likely the consumer cares the least about the domain name, the domain extension, or whether it has a hyphen or not. They care most about the product they are looking for. If they like the site and the information they find, they will bookmark the site and STILL may never know what the URL address is. All they will need to know for further or future reference is what the site was about and perhaps recognize the favicon.

Hyphens do not matter in the real world because in the real world what matters most is results and satisfaction and instant gratification.

Ok....then tell me again why Solar-Energy.com is worth thousands and Solar--Energy.com is not. With your logic a name with two hyphens would be just as good as one, since people are just clicking on a link and not typing it in.

At some point you are going to have to explain to me why someone would spend thousands on
Solar-Energy.com when they could just add another hyphen and get the name for 8 dollars. We are talking about the value of domain names here, not the value of businesses. You are saying that the name Solar-Energy.com gives someone a huge competitive advantage, and advantage so strong as to be worth thousands of dollars, and yet you argue the exact opposite. All of your arguments make the name pretty much irrelevant, since actual search engine placement and content would be most important.

And if that's the case the value of Solar-Energy.com is not much at all. So, if you are right about what you say, this name doesn't bring the value, it is the SEO that really drives the value. And if you are wrong about your SEO ideas, then of course the name has very little value. Any way you spin it, the name isn't worth much. But people buy garbage all the time, so if you guys convince someone to buy it, then good for you.

To get true value you need to list a name in a domain forum where domainers actually see it, and without the fanfare of an appraisal thread. This name would not get as strong interest as you think if the OP did that.

Just because someone "might" buy the name for $5,000 if the stars align does not make the name worth that. You have to factor in the odds of getting that type of sale, then subtract the amount of time and effort you put into achieving that sale, including calculating the time you spend Googling leads and listing the name at various places.

When you add it all up and are honest about it, names like this generally SUCK. If there is a ten percent chance you get a 5K sale, that hardly makes an asset worth 5K. Get real here.

---------- Post added 10-19-2011 at 12:06 AM ---------- Previous post was 10-18-2011 at 11:53 PM ----------

I was looking something up in another appraisal thread http://www.dnforum.com/f4/iwallstreet-org-thread-467925.html#post2046415

wall-street.com comes in number 7 out of 1,290,000,000 (that is over 1 billion results) in a general search for wall street.

Wall-Street.com is a much better name than Solar-Energy.com. Wall Street is synonymous with business and commerce, and transactions. Solar Energy is closer to Global Warming than commerce. Just because there is a certain level of business involved in Solar Energy does not make it a commercial name that would have value like Wall Street. A site at Wall-Street would have all kinds of money making possibilities, and the name is in another stratosphere than the one Solar Energy inhabits.

People Googling Wall Street are much more inclined to spend actual money than ones Googling Solar Energy. Poetry is not a commercial term, but Poetry.com is still a great and valuable name. However, a name like My-Poetry.com is worth zero, and that is a fact. Solar energy is close to poetry than you think.

Would S-O-L-A-R E-N-E-R-G-Y.com be worth anything? In my world no, in your world yes.

 

[David G]

At some point you are going to have to explain to me why someone would spend thousands on
Solar-Energy.com when they could just add another hyphen and get the name for 8 dollars.

That's a very good point and something I never thought about before. It makes sense since the SEO value would likely be similar regardless of the number of hyphens.

 

[bmugford]

At some point you are going to have to explain to me why someone would spend thousands on
Solar-Energy.com when they could just add another hyphen and get the name for 8 dollars.

Well, to start with Solar--Energy.com is taken and is owned by Rob Monster.

The answer is pretty easy. Having a keyword domain with one well placed hyphen is a credible option.

Having a keyword domain with 2,3,4,5,6,7 hyphens in a row is not.

Brad

 

[Bill F.]

At some point you are going to have to explain to me why someone would spend thousands on
Solar-Energy.com when they could just add another hyphen and get the name for 8 dollars.

I think the simplest answer is that one hyphen is English. Two consecutive hyphens are not.

If your point is that SEO is the whole of the argument for hyphenated names, it's not. People are attracted by keyword domains, as any domainer will agree. Hyphenated keywords are still keywords. True, they are not as brandable as unhyphenated keywords, but they are considerably cheaper and still highly effective. Which is why they regular sell for 4 figures, whether you agree with it or not. And the OP has said he received solid offers on the name, so what's left to disagree with?

 

[brian1234]

The answer is pretty easy. Having a keyword domain with one well placed hyphen is a credible option.
Having a keyword domain with 2,3,4,5,6,7 hyphens in a row is not.

Well said. You're absolutely right, and also proved
that there are some long-established domainers who
don't even know "the basics" when it comes to value.

Cheers,

 

[Gerry]

Ok....then tell me again why Solar-Energy.com is worth thousands and Solar--Energy.com is not.

You immediately go back to domainer mind-set and obviously missed the whole point of the post I made.

---------- Post added at 08:56 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:50 AM ----------

Wall-Street.com is a much better name than Solar-Energy.com.

You can't have it both ways.

You made grandiose assumptions that solar energy is closer to global warming than commerce.

No, no, and no.

Solar Energy defines a specific sector in Energy. That is the whole point. It does not dance around as being Global Warming. It defines a very specific form of energy.

 

[brian1234]

You immediately go back to domainer mind-set and obviously missed the whole point of the post I made.

---------- Post added at 08:56 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:50 AM ----------

You can't have it both ways.

You made grandiose assumptions that solar energy is closer to global warming than commerce.

No, no, and no.

Solar Energy defines a specific sector in Energy. That is the whole point. It does not dance around as being Global Warming. It defines a very specific form of energy.

Hi Doc, I admire your "energy" (no pun intended) on
this thread, but I think that arguing with WhoDatDumb
is, ultimately, a fruitless exercise.

Some people just want to be heard. That is just one of
the unfortunate aspects of an online forum.

 

[eeedc]

Well, to start with Solar--Energy.com is taken and is owned by Rob Monster.

The answer is pretty easy. Having a keyword domain with one well placed hyphen is a credible option.

Having a keyword domain with 2,3,4,5,6,7 hyphens in a row is not.

Brad

Can't you add a hyphen at the end? Not that I would do it, but I thought I saw some SEO site suggesting it. One hypen is bad enough for branding.

 

[David G]

You would have to ask Brad, but I think he just threw that out as a fast and low offer that at a minimum would call for a counteroffer.

IMO, that was a high offer as I really don't think the name is worth more than 2k.

How much is solar--energy.com worth (in comparison to one hyphen) since both names would need to rely so heavily on search traffic which SEO would likely have little if any effect from having 1 or 2 hyphens?

 

[bmugford]

Can't you add a hyphen at the end? Not that I would do it, but I thought I saw some SEO site suggesting it. One hypen is bad enough for branding.

No, because domains can't start or end with a hyphen.

Brad

 

[Gerry]

Hi Doc, I admire your "energy" (no pun intended) on
this thread, but I think that arguing with WhoDatDumb
is, ultimately, a fruitless exercise.

Some people just want to be heard. That is just one of
the unfortunate aspects of an online forum.

You know, it is amazing for me to spend this much time validating the worth of something when I don't even own the domain.

About 8 to 10 years ago, I discovered a site that did a decent job on what criteria to use when judging a domain name. Judging can mean whether you plan to buy, sell, or hold onto your own domains. Even though the service swiftappraisal.com is free, I do not and did not count this as being valid appraisals or a tool for pricing my names. Just like countless other sites, they attempt to entice you to pay to get a professional appraisal.

The key focus I want to point out here is the basic criteria used in defining the worth of a name.

When looking at names, YOU MUST BE HONEST WITH YOURSELF! Whether buying, selling, or reviewing names in your ownership, you have to be honest with yourself in ticking these boxes.

• 
  Number of words
  
  Size of market
• massive market
• big market
• medium market
• small market
  
  Domain Applies to
• the whole market
• the major portion of the market
• a minor portion of the market
  
  Decribes the content
• perfectly
• very well
• well
• not well
• not at all
  
  Domain name is
• Unforgettable
• Very easy to remember
• Easy to remember
• hard to remember
• impossible to remember

Here is something to keep in mind – this is a domainer's tool created by domainers for domainers. This has absolutely no bearing or effect on end users. End users approach you because you have something they want. Period.

Many people know that I was buying L-L.com's domains for 100-300 bucks like there was no tomorrow. Why? Because domainers had convinced domainers that a Hyphen was taboo. I was laughing myself silly because of the mentality of domainers being so out of synch with the real world.

A year or two later, I was selling these for multiple thousands each. I sold a few to domainers for several thousand each (I think the least I got for one was $2500) and many to end users for multiple thousands. The demand was there because businesses realized the value in short domains WITH HYPHENS. This became more true with the advent of google adwords, etc. I am referring back 8-10 years ago when SEO was just coming into everyday speak of marketing and with the true ignition of everybody getting on the web.

The point is, as I have made already in this thread, there is no better name for Solar Energy but the best alternative would be Solar-Energy. It defines a massive global market perfectly, it is a very current hot button topic and will remain so, it is a complete industry within itself, it applies to a massive market, the entire market, and describes the content of the market perfectly.

A big kicker is the simple fact that right now, its competition is sleeping as parked names.

I can not think of any more proof a domainer would need to the downside of parking than their own name's search results and where it ranks. When you think you have a super duper generic word or phrase then you get SMACKED in the face when you look for it in a google search.

Why does that happen? Because someone has taken an alternative name and extension and made a viable web site that just kicks your ass further down the rankings.

How much does the owner of solar energy want? Potentially seven figures. I don't know. I did not ask. Most likely they want enough to scare the end user away and look for affordable alternatives. And, if Solar-Energy is priced too high, they may consider the .net to the .com. Who knows.

---------- Post added at 01:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:00 PM ----------

IMO, that was a high offer as I really don't think the name is worth more than 2k.

If I had the cash to spare (at the moment I have to have about 16K in matching funds for a education grant payable by the beginning of the month of November) I would gladly pay 2K for this name. It is worth a hell of a lot more than that and I could potentially make that back in a few months as a informative site with affiliate ads and direct pay ads from merchants.

solar-energy has 218 million results and solar energy 62.5 million results. Merchants, suppliers, researchers, installers, and contractors would pay to be on the first site listed out of 218 million.

 

[David G]

I could potentially make that back in a few months as a informative site with affiliate ads and direct pay ads from merchants.

Much easier said than done, unfortunately. Have been trying hard to make money with affiliates and selling ads directly on my sites for a long time but it's EXTREMELY difficult to do. Maybe you could help myself and others out by explaining how you do it so successfully!