legal Warning: beware of the member - MIHOLDEM - unauthorised payment!

[malmar2]

If you used Paypal and got burned, you have nobody to blame but yourself and the guy that ripped you off.

It might not be nice to hear, but Raider is 100% right.

 

[rocket]

The same person PM me about 2 domains which i was selling , agreed on a price , which i thought was strange , as it was near my selling price .

He asked for my Paypal details , which i gave , waited 48 hours , and here we are .

Limit Paypal transactions to $200 , above that use a Escrow Service .

 

[ambet]

I see nobody says the most important thing in this matter. All of us which were victims of these scammers, all of us wanted to make a big profit very easy. I was glad when that scumbag Miholdem offered to me a very good deal, very close to my BIN... I reviewed some of his (or her ) posts and I must say that almost all of his offers were very big.
Just look at the course of negotiation here:
http://www.dnforum.com/f283/omovie-com-thread-316960.html
Look at the seller's reaction when some other user told him that Miholdem's offer was too big...
LOL!!!
What I want to say is that is obviously we are encouraging the scammers to cheat on us...

 

[south]

Originally Posted by DotComGod
I can also tell you that in the next few days I will be initiating manadatory member verification to cut down on this stuff in the future

Excellent! :high5:

 

[ekal]

Good news from my end ... ResellersClub were very helpful and returned my domains.

I faxed them a few documents and the domains were back in my account a couple of hours later.

 

[Theo]

Awesome.

 

[ekal]

It is!

I've always thought of ResellersClub as a cheap and cheerful option (I wouldn't keep any really valuable names with them) but I've got to say that their response on this occasion was absolutely outstanding.

 

[buymynames]

Ekal, I'm glad you've got your name back. Thanks for the thread Owntag, I hope you get your name back. Almost made a deal with Miholdem.. Something about his time availability that made me suspicious.

Thanks again for the effort Adam...

 

[silverdom]

I see nobody says the most important thing in this matter. All of us which were victims of these scammers, all of us wanted to make a big profit very easy. I was glad when that scumbag Miholdem offered to me a very good deal, very close to my BIN... I reviewed some of his (or her ) posts and I must say that almost all of his offers were very big.
Just look at the course of negotiation here:
http://www.dnforum.com/f283/omovie-com-thread-316960.html
Look at the seller's reaction when some other user told him that Miholdem's offer was too big...
LOL!!!
What I want to say is that is obviously we are encouraging the scammers to cheat on us...

NOT at all.
In my case :
No big profit, no high prices , regular price after negotiation.

Just got a "F... Off" from Enom right now.

So, both GoDaddy and Enom ($29.99 renewals) are useless in that case.

They live on different planet and don't read DnForum (sent them this link), or read and
think it's far from their responsibility.

Yes, right, there is a probs from our end , we need to exclude payment risks ourselves,
but it shows to these people how easy is to go away with stolen names...

Why do i keep hundreds of names with my current registrars ? Once for the 10 years i need help and none gives a ....

 

[steveatvillas]

I don't really think you can place any blame with the Registrars, because they are carrying out your instructions to either push or transfer out/in. They didn't commit the fraud. And as you all know, once a name is transferred/pushed, that's it as far as the Registrar is concerned.

Quite frankly, with all the bad stuff going on with PayPal, it would seem pretty clear that PayPal's weaknesses have been discovered and are being exploited by scammers. Not only with domains, the press is full of horror stories. So, don't use it.

I just got contacted this afternoon by someone wanting to buy one of my names using PayPal. I agreed his price, but told him no PayPal. I ONLY use Escrow.com, and I suggested this. I even agreed to pay the Escrow fee of $25--better to spend 25 bucks than to lose the name, ¿no?

Haven't heard back from him.

Escrow.com creates a level playing field, and it's worth the fee, IMHO. And the forums wouldn't be full of horror stories if sophisticated, professional domainers used it at whatever the cost.

But, that's just me, I guess.

Steve

 

[A D]

Escrow.com creates a level playing field, and it's worth the fee, IMHO. And the forums wouldn't be full of horror stories if sophisticated, professional domainers used it at whatever the cost.

But, that's just me, I guess.

If I don't know who I am dealing with, I always use Escrow.com

It's also safer for a legitimate seller.

-=DCG=-

 

[steveatvillas]

Well said, Adam.

Funnily enough, I have just heard back from my buyer, who has gone to great lengths to explain to me that Escrow.com is really a hassle to set up (30 seconds of my time is a hassle??)

He then explains to me just how easy it is to send money via PayPal (yeah, I know, I use it to send money to my sister).

Oh yeah, in his first email to me he used the name of Damien. In the second email he is now Kevin. When I stopped laughing, I sent him an email telling him it's E.C or it ain't gonna happen.

Now, let me think....Kevin....from Canada.... Dr. Ham, perhaps? Maybe I should add another xx to the price? If he wants it, I guess it has more value than I thought.

Steve

Upon reflection, does anyone else have a comment on a buyer who calls himself Damien, then Kevin, using a Yahoo.ca email address?

I don't think it's kosher to post the person's full email address (is it?) on the forum, but I can tell you if you PM me.

Thanks in advance.

Steve

 

[imarketingblogger]

the doctrine of caveat emptor
fun apart, hope this doesn't happen again.

Good luck
cheers

 

[MacyT.]

Last Online: Yesterday 09:10 PM
iTrader: (6)
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 7
DNF$: 100
Location: Lexington

I've been on this forum for over a year and just have 6 itraders. This person was obviously on a buying spree with so few posts!

I'm a verified paypal user, but I'm guessing that isn't what this forum needs. Adam - is there another way for me to verify, my fax machine is broken! If not, I guess there is always kinkos :sigh2:.

 

[SuccessClick]

I'm surprised about the Paypal "no help" comments. If there's a dispute, you go into resolution dispute, make copies of all correspondence between you and the buyer, make copies of your "push confirmation" email from your registrar, show the new whois information and tell Paypal CS that you've been scanned. I've been using Paypal for almost five years, and I've been chargebacked twice, but fought it and got the money back.

I don't know if this is a case of the chargeback being because the paypal account buying the domains didn't have enough money, but then that's what Paypal guarantees AGAINST. Too many domainers sell through paypal services, so Paypal is familiar with buying/selling domains processing.

You have to mail your evidence and complaint by snail mail, and it's a long process, but it works. As for "intangibles", a domain name isn't an "intangible".

Keep bugging paypal, get as much info as to how to resolve the issue as you can. If they're giving you the runaround, post their comments and any scans of emails or letters you receive from them. Then when domainers start losing faith in the protections Paypal is supposed to give them, and start cancelling their PP accts, maybe Paypal will look into these blatant style ripoffs.

Bottom line, if a Paypal payment is charged back, Paypal HAS to log a reason for that person's chargeback. You get a copy of that reason, then try to resolve it.

hope this helps.

 

[Raider]

Stephan, If Paypal reverses the chargeback, theirs nothing preventing the scammer from calling his credit card and disputing the charge, claiming he never made it.... And we both know who's side they will take when a signature is not captured and no proof of delivery.

 

[SuccessClick]

Stephan, If Paypal reverses the chargeback, theirs nothing preventing the scammer from calling his credit card and disputing the charge, claiming he never made it.... And we both know who's side they will take when a signature is not captured and no proof of delivery.

Raider, that's not really applicable here. It has nothing to do with a credit card. If the Paypal account is verified (you shouldn't do business with anyone that doesn't have PP verified acct) a reversed chargeback (putting the money back into the seller's account) isn't going to involve the buyer's credit card, unless the person accepted a credit card payment by Paypal. That can't happen unless the buyer is verified.

I've been through this drill twice in the last several years, and won both of them. My "disputed" amounts were about $400 each time. It just takes a little effort, a few phone calls, and hopefully you push a lot of money through your paypal account monthly. Paypal doesn't want to lose good customers, and if you show you provided the product/service, then Paypal has to investigate the dispute by contacting the person who did the chargeback. if that Person doesn't cooperate, then paypal guarantees the purchase.

Unless they changed their policy recently, this is fixable. If it wasn't, ebay would be pounded with tons of scams through paypal, and paypal would lose all credibility and go down like the Hindenburg.

 

[Raider]

Raider, that's not really applicable here. It has nothing to do with a credit card. If the Paypal account is verified (you shouldn't do business with anyone that doesn't have PP verified acct) a reversed chargeback (putting the money back into the seller's account) isn't going to involve the buyer's credit card, unless the person accepted a credit card payment by Paypal. That can't happen unless the buyer is verified.

Your correct about the verification required for CC, What I'm saying is that whether it's Credit card, ACH or Echeck, The buyer/scammer can go to his/her bank or credit card and reverse that charge, (on virtual items) once reversed, Paypal goes into recover mode targeting the sellers PP account.

If the buyer used funds that were in his/her paypal account, then Paypal would be in control an can decide the outcome.

 

[SuccessClick]

Your correct about the verification required for CC, What I'm saying is that whether it's Credit card, ACH or Echeck, The buyer/scammer can go to his/her bank or credit card and reverse that charge, (on virtual items) once reversed, Paypal goes into recover mode targeting the sellers PP account.

If the buyer used funds that were in his/her paypal account, then Paypal would be in control an can decide the outcome.

Exactly. I know some people pay their paypal through these methods, but still Paypal can see the bank's verification info, and investigate it if they get a few complaints about the same person or problem. if you're a good PP customer, you'll get your money back.

What domainers should do in the meantime is hold the domain for 48 after payment if dealing with someone they've never dealt with before. To satisfy the buyer, just change the Registrant name to theirs, and keep all the contact info the same. Registrars don't pay attention to the name of the registrant in a dispute, they only look at the contact info, and if you, the seller, show good faith by changing the whois registrant info, but keep all contact info the same... wait until the funds clear your account, even call up Paypal and ask them if the funds are "secured", and if so, then push/transfer the domain.

I think the biggest lesson here is that you should also do due diligence on EVERY BUYER so you know who they are. A domainer? A company? Located in the USA? Foreign country? Does their name or company appear in searches? Any complaints on their email address? Scam reports. It only takes about 10 minutes to look up this info. I do this all the time, even before I come up with a sales price especially if someone contacts me first. I want to know who the buyer is, so that I can visit him personally if he rips me off.

 

[allroundguy]

There are 2 main causes for domain payment fraud:
1. Fraudulent minded people -> We usually find out who they are when it's too late ...
2. Opportunity -> Most domains are sold for a too cheap price to make escrow rendable, unless it is tax deductable or otherwise recuperable.

Several domain companies offer escrow.
Why escrow is not popular?
Too complicated, or can't we spare the fees?

Here are my 2 preferred solutions:
$2 is the minimum Escrow fee at MoneyBookers.com --> https://www.moneybookers.com/app/?rid=138588
$25 is minimum Escrow fee at Escrow.com ---> https://www.escrow.com/index.asp?PID=3800

Anyway, I never understood why people sell domains below reg. fee + PayPal + listing + commission + other fees ...
$100.00 for a domain that was registered and renewed a few times, promoted, listed, auctioned, etc. is a fair minimum to me.
Escrow fee for $100.00 at Escrow.com is $25.00 - At MoneyBookers.com it is $2.00.