opinion What is a "Struggle Session" and why we should avoid them at DNForum

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robmonster

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The concept of a struggle session might not be a familiar topic for some here, but it is worth understanding for navigating what is showing up in various parts of civil society and increasingly at work in social media, forums and blog comment sections in achieving manufactured consensus.

The struggle session was famously used by the Chinese Communist Party to achieve alignment and consensus. It served to root out any remnant of dissent or misaligned thinking before more Draconian measures were introduced. Wikipedia defines it as follows:

1633652200043.png

As some here will recognize, I have witnessed a struggle session in operation over the last month at NamePros. If you missed it, you can sample that here:


I believe the dynamic is toxic in its drive to conformity. Ironically it was a primary reason for Epik to acquire DNForum. I did not expect it to get this severe, but I guess we were prescient in that acquisition. I have great hope for DNForum and believe others will discover why in time.

Although I am not a moderator and have no intention of becoming one, as the owner of DNForum, Epik will absolutely encourage open dialog in the hope that more discussion is better. In promoting dialog, the silent majority should never have to live in fear of the apparatchiks. Independent thought should be welcome and encouraged here.

As for the folks who prefer to be part of the hive mind, they might feel more at home elsewhere. Nevertheless, they should still feel welcome to sample the engagement of free thinkers.
 
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DapperJohn

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The concept of a struggle session might not be a familiar topic for some here, but it is worth understanding for navigating what is showing up in various parts of civil society and increasingly at work in social media, forums and blog comment sections in achieving manufactured consensus.

The struggle session was famously used by the Chinese Communist Party to achieve alignment and consensus. It served to root out any remnant of dissent or misaligned thinking before more Draconian measures were introduced. Wikipedia defines it as follows:

View attachment 5422

As some here will recognize, I have witnessed a struggle session in operation over the last month at NamePros. If you missed it, you can sample that here:


I believe the dynamic is toxic in its drive to conformity. Ironically it was a primary reason for Epik to acquire DNForum. I did not expect it to get this severe, but I guess we were prescient in that acquisition. I have great hope for DNForum and believe others will discover why in time.

Although I am not a moderator and have no intention of becoming one, as the owner of DNForum, Epik will absolutely encourage open dialog in the hope that more discussion is better. In promoting dialog, the silent majority should never have to live in fear of the apparatchiks. Independent thought should be welcome and encouraged here.

As for the folks who prefer to be part of the hive mind, they might feel more at home elsewhere. Nevertheless, they should still feel welcome to sample the engagement of free thinkers.
I believe that thread is active because you don't address specific issues brought up. It seems you want to skirt around them bringing in religion and posts like these. Some of the emails the owner Paul posted from seems you're not so ok with open dialogue, and they come across as beware what you post.

In other posts here you talk about unity among the industry, when literally on your site you have pages going against competitors like GoDaddy.

I received yet another email from you today about password reset.

I'm more concerned about what you're doing to secure the site. What about the "shitty code" your words the site is built on. Has that been fixed yet?
 

DapperJohn

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Just saw your post in the other thread. Why not post that at Namepros and send an email letting customers know what is being done. That's what we've been asking for.
 

amplify

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I believe that thread is active because you don't address specific issues brought up.
Having personally read the 107 pages on NamePros, without the ability to get involved due to being permanently banned, I would suggest for Rob to not get involved in it at all. Nobody in that thread is there to receive answers for personal benefit, i.e., to help them understand what they need to do in order to protect themselves.

The thread's purpose is solely to stack the cards against Epik and somehow, personally to attack Rob for being an outspoken Christian—that I find horrifying as we would never do the same to a different religion—and his pursuit of freedom of speech. And yes I am aware that free speech has consequences; however, it should not border on the line of terrorism as this was clearly politically motivated to expose "alt-right" users.
Why not post that at Namepros
Why give anyone there an "ah-ha" moment as they're dissecting every word? Let them come here, where comments aren't cherry-picked in moderation, to have a conversation on more equal terms.
 

DapperJohn

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Having personally read the 107 pages on NamePros, without the ability to get involved due to being permanently banned, I would suggest for Rob to not get involved in it at all. Nobody in that thread is there to receive answers for personal benefit, i.e., to help them understand what they need to do in order to protect themselves.

The thread's purpose is solely to stack the cards against Epik and somehow, personally to attack Rob for being an outspoken Christian—that I find horrifying as we would never do the same to a different religion—and his pursuit of freedom of speech. And yes I am aware that free speech has consequences; however, it should not border on the line of terrorism as this was clearly politically motivated to expose "alt-right" users.

Why give anyone there an "ah-ha" moment as they're dissecting every word? Let them come here, where comments aren't cherry-picked in moderation, to have a conversation on more equal terms.
What Rob posted here has already been reposted over on Namepros.

And you just lied about Rob being attacked because he's Christian. You can't find 1 person attacking him because of that. I would love to see you attempt to back that statement up with a quote. Most of that thread is about the hack and some having issues with taking on sites so bad they were dropped by other registrars. I'm more offended using Christianity as cover or to try to change the subject. That's coming from an actual Christian.



Rb
 

amplify

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And you just lied about Rob being attacked because he's Christian
Thank you for proving my point: There's that wordsmithing I'm talking about.

His faith is brought up a lot to discredit him.
 

DapperJohn

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Thank you for proving my point: There's that wordsmithing I'm talking about.

His faith is brought up a lot to discredit him.
Christians are 65% of the American population. Many "attacking" Rob are probably actual Christians.

You just proved my point. You couldn't find 1 example.

He's not attacked because he's Christian. People are pointing out he's using it for marketing purposes or you shouldn't mix religion with business etc. You certainly shouldn't go on cam saying data is cursed or hard drives can burst into flames. You say stuff like that, people will clown on you.
 

DapperJohn

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Not very Christian of you to take it out of context and also cast a stone, but I'm not going to be the judge after your final days.
Final Days? This is the stuff I'm talking about. Can't you respond like a normal person. I've seen some Gab posts from you. Do you think that's very Christian? Spending your time on sites like that.

What I pointed out is common sense.

When people see the CEO of a company get on cam and say the data is cursed and things will catch fire. First, do you believe things just catch fire? If you do that would be crazy. If you don't, then you agree with me.

Do you think most people agree or disagree with that kind of stuff? And then I want to know if you personally believe that as well.

I also spent time reading that Wikipedia page of a struggle session. To compare that to the thread at Namepros is really reaching.
 

amplify

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Can't you respond like a normal person.
Do you ask your bishop, pastor, or missionaries or anyone else spreading the word of God or other religious people this same question?
I've seen some Gab posts from you.
Blatant lies or you are mixing me up with someone else. I have 1 Gab account that I know of with 0 followers and 0 comments. As a domain name investor, I might've registered more just for the handle.
What I pointed out is common sense.
Does everything Christian follow common sense? Common sense says I can't physically move a mountain in all my year's hard labor, but,
Matthew 17-20 said:
And He *said to them, “Because of the littleness of your faith; for truly I say to you, if you have faith the size of a mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move; and nothing will be impossible to you.
Anything else to add? You're only proving the original post of "struggle session" to be true. :)
 
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taking on sites so bad they were dropped by other registrars
I'm sorry, but this kind of "logic" seems to hint to me that you are lying alleging being a Christian (as "argument", btw, which tends to confirm the same thing). The sites must be "bad" as some other registrars dropped them. Oh yes, I know all too well that kind of thinking. Don't look at the facts but use what other people (friends or like-minded people, usually) think as "justification".
 

DapperJohn

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I'm sorry, but this kind of "logic" seems to hint to me that you are lying alleging being a Christian (as "argument", btw, which tends to confirm the same thing). The sites must be "bad" as some other registrars dropped them. Oh yes, I know all too well that kind of thinking. Don't look at the facts but use what other people (friends or like-minded people, usually) think as "justification".
They were bad. Some so bad, even Epik dropped them. I don't think real Christians would support some of the stuff I've seen on those sites.
 

DapperJohn

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Do you ask your bishop, pastor, or missionaries or anyone else spreading the word of God or other religious people this same question?

Blatant lies or you are mixing me up with someone else. I have 1 Gab account that I know of with 0 followers and 0 comments. As a domain name investor, I might've registered more just for the handle.

Does everything Christian follow common sense? Common sense says I can't physically move a mountain in all my year's hard labor, but,Anything else to add? You're only proving the original post of "struggle session" to be true. :)
Oh, I didn't know you were here to spread the word of God, I thought you were just a mod.

And it's possible I confused you with somebody else. If so, my bad. I saw posts here about Gab from you and somebody over there has the name you're using here. Could be different people.

As far as common sense, yet again, proving my point bringing religion into it.

Common sense was referring to most people reading about somebody saying things are cursed and things will catch fire as a bit crazy. Do you think most people would think that's normal? Do you personally think things just catch fire?
 
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They were bad. Some so bad, even Epik dropped them. I don't think real Christians would support some of the stuff I've seen on those sites.
To me, it seems pretty complicated these days between letting do (maybe "too much", or letting things go too extreme) and "cancel culture" where some people decide what can be said and what can't. For some people, there is never enough "cancellation" of things THEY don't appreciate. Anyway, some sites are an answer to this. and they are probably more needed than the opposite. But sure, there are then voices lamenting they should be "cancelled", probably not realizing it's exactly what created them in the first place.

Anyway, I personally will agree with you on the fire thing. It may appear as "weird" to a lot of people. As a lot of religious things do. Especially to non religious people. It isn't necessarily to take literally (I don't know what Rob had in mind when saying it). I do understand the bizarre part when it seems the person does mean it literally.
 

DapperJohn

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To me, it seems pretty complicated these days between letting do (maybe "too much", or letting things go too extreme) and "cancel culture" where some people decide what can be said and what can't. For some people, there is never enough "cancellation" of things THEY don't appreciate. Anyway, some sites are an answer to this. and they are probably more needed than the opposite. But sure, there are then voices lamenting they should be "cancelled", probably not realizing it's exactly what created them in the first place.

Anyway, I personally will agree with you on the fire thing. It may appear as "weird" to a lot of people. As a lot of religious things do. Especially to non religious people. It isn't necessarily to take literally (I don't know what Rob had in mind when saying it). I do understand the bizarre part when it seems the person does mean it literally.
I don't think even most religious people think things just catch fire. amplify said it was taken out of context when there is literally video of that chat session on YouTube and Molly White provided a transcript. It came right from Rob.

As far as cancel culture, let's take an example of GoDaddy dropping that gun site. Godaddy said it was because a TOS violation. People that leaned right seemed to say it was because GoDaddy doesn't support the 2nd Amendment, the right to bear arms, they don't like guns etc. If I asked you who would you say is the biggest gun group in the world? Most would say the NRA right? https://www.whois.com/whois/nra.org

NRA is registered at GoDaddy.
 
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Ok, now I'm just sure of it (your supposed "Christianity" above being a lie).
So, your point is that some people, according to you, SEEMED to say something which may not be accurate. Is that it? How is that relevant with anything, here?

TOS are unilaterally decided and enforced by GoDaddy. Their alleged violation was maybe true, or maybe it was a little overblown. They didn't have to let the site only 24 hours. They could probably have been in a more constructive dialogue. They weren't. It was also written GoDaddy received "complaints". So GoGaddy was asked (or pressured) by some friends (or otherwise) to take them down, and they complied (=cancel culture at its finest).

So, have they been "cancelled" by GoDaddy, or not? What are you trying to demonstrate? If anything.
That maybe GoDaddy isn't necessarily against guns. Great. And?
 

amplify

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You are just proving that we are going through a struggle session, @DapperJohn.

It shows so hard.

You came from there to here just to humiliate or persecute Rob or Epik.

You're more than welcome to stay, but try not to be disingenuous in your fight. You said that Molly created a transcript. Go ahead and read forward in that, beyond "hard drives will catch fire." That, my friend, and possibly closet atheist, is what "out of context" means. It meant you took words, and only those words, without prefixing or suffixing the rest of what was said. Prove me wrong—I've read the transcript. I'm just baiting you to post it so your argument falls to pieces.
 

DapperJohn

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You are just proving that we are going through a struggle session, @DapperJohn.

It shows so hard.

You came from there to here just to humiliate or persecute Rob or Epik.

You're more than welcome to say, but try not to be disingenuous in your fight. You said that Molly created a transcript. Go ahead and read forward in that, beyond "hard drives will catch fire." That, my friend, and possibly closet atheist, is what "out of context" means. It meant you took words, and only those words, without prefixing or suffixing the rest of what was said. Prove me wrong—I've read the transcript. I'm just baiting you to post it so your argument falls to pieces.

No, I came because I got another reset email from Epik.

"And I’m telling you, there were curses put on these datasets, and not out of spite. I’m just saying that it was done. I’m just giving you a heads up. There are curses. Laptops will burn. Hard drives will burn. And we’ll see if it’s true, but there’s…"

I did read forward in it, it's how I learned about the "shitty code"

"Yes, shitty Russian code. We bought some shitty Russian code and we actually didn’t really have an opportunity to evaluate that code until we finished, until we really took control over everything."

Maybe you should read before you post?



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