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How bad, really, is Click Fraud?

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mole

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Let's say, hypothetically, I want to earn money through whatever means I can muster - ethically or unethically. Money is money. I hope to sucker the hundreds and thousands of advertisers who don't know the last thing about useless clicks, let alone monitor their trafic. How do I make this money? Who are the best black hats I can hire to program next generation clickbots and coordinate huge proxy networks? :-D
 

clemzonguy

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That's why you scratch someone else's back and why people hire Indians to visit their websites all day clicking on stuff. I am sure that there are plenty of people who do this but when I advertise I tell google/overture or any other sponsor that I only want US hits. The problem these days is with kids who have no purchasing power....
 

deepstar

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You might as well go rob your bank as they are both stealing and likely you will make more robbing your bank.
 

Steen

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clemzonguy said:
That's why you scratch someone else's back and why people hire Indians to visit their websites all day clicking on stuff. I am sure that there are plenty of people who do this but when I advertise I tell google/overture or any other sponsor that I only want US hits. The problem these days is with kids who have no purchasing power....
Indians can click on US only ads, if that's what you're saying.
 

RTM.net

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Correct... it's a spy vs. spy game. The PPC systems use IP address and geolocation lookups, but the fraudsters can use (multiple) proxies with servers that resolve to ISPs located in G7 countries.

Of course, the better PPC programs (such as Adsense) have very advanced click fraud systems in place... think click interval (delays between clicks, matching "abnormal" behavious, such as someone double clicking an ad, ... and click intervals that are too steady in delays...

Hey, my father always said... "whatever you do, it will - someday, somehow - come back to you."

Good or bad...

I (try) and live by that credo...

Rob
 

hiOsilver

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PPC is the golden goose for the domain business. Anyone who does not understand this issue on moral and ethical grounds should at least think about what they are doing when they practice (or even consider) click fraud. You are damaging the golden goose. I hope that Google, Yahoo, etc do as much as they can to find and eliminate click fraud as they can.
 

URLCollection

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hiOsilver said:
PPC is the golden goose for the domain business. Anyone who does not understand this issue on moral and ethical grounds should at least think about what they are doing when they practice (or even consider) click fraud. You are damaging the golden goose. I hope that Google, Yahoo, etc do as much as they can to find and eliminate click fraud as they can.

You bet Howard - Click Fraud hurts all of us in this industry. The more fraud the less advertisers will bid for clicks as it is eroding their ad budgets. The less click rate - the less revenues available to all publishers. It does not just effect Yahoo - Google and the SE, it effects us. I have heard recently that the search engines are starting to turn over any partners they find running fraud programs for prosecution and canceling contracts from some that reside in foreign countries.Try getting a new Google or Yahoo direct program if you do not reside in the US where the laws can be upheld. I do not think you can. The traffic syndicators that partner with the big search engines and have clients running click fraud will soon be shut down as well, I have been told, unless they police their clients better. Click Fraud is illegal and should be dealt with the same as any other criminal activity. Steve
 

Mr. Deleted

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I agree too that the advertisers are more willing to put their budgets in other places if they can't get a good RIO from PPC, and so it hurts the industry as a whole.

THe question is now, how would you like the PPC industry to fail, and have to go back to banner ads, which we all know that is not vary successful anymore.
 

Domagon

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The best click-bots are the live human kind ...

Some pay people to click links in specially crafted emails they send out, often several few times per day, to everyone participating with each usually being paid a few cents per click generated.

The other approach some use is to hire people off-shore to manually post links on message boards, etc - some direct to PPC, some to landing pages, etc, etc ...

Bottom line is the live human click-bot is the most difficult to detect and stop ... and often is NOT against the law either depending on how it's done/jurisdiction, etc.

Impression based advertising / flat-rate is likely become more popular over time. PPC isn't going away, but will likely be marginalized over time - not just because of PPC fraud, but more so because PPC itself is a flawed concept ... not everyone buys immediately; PPC ignores the value of branding.

Ron
 

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`Let's say, hypothetically, I want to earn money through whatever means I can muster - ethically or unethically. Money is money. I hope to sucker the hundreds and thousands of advertisers who don't know the last thing about useless clicks, let alone monitor their trafic. How do I make this money? Who are the best black hats I can hire to program next generation clickbots and coordinate huge proxy networks? "
_____________________________________________________________________

your joking right?
 
M

mole

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MediaHound said:
your joking right?

"hypothetically", hound :-D

I've seen how advertisers are being conned big time in my research of the WWW and would like to understand the nature of the beast from the perspective of honest and experienced members here. In doing business, it can only pay to protect your advertisers/sponsors from fraud.
 

NameWolf

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Well, I feel that there is someone up there watching our actions and attempts at dishonest income like this would most probably come back to bite you in the buttocks accordingly ...

Having said that, an experienced member of DN community such as mole would know better and I do believe that his intentions are nothing but research.

Regards,
 
M

mole

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In truth, I continue to be shocked, and fascinated, at the ingenious ways PPC models can be exploited. If an advertiser pays $50 per click without due accountability made for conversion, imagine how many immigrant workers a person can employ at sweat shops in the States (IP matching) willing to click and hold for 30secs at a landing page at a labor cost of $1 per $1,000 qualified human clicks.

I do see a solution to this state of affairs, but was wondering if domainers here really understand the serverity of the issue today and enormity of the challenge we all face when it comes to responsible traffic generation and management.

More importantly, what can we do to protect the valued notion of 'traffic' and 'unique visitors'?

This industry does not like "whistle blowers", but does this industry see the looming backlash and have a modus operandi of "steal all the gold before the giant wakes up"?
 
M

mole

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deepstar

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mole said:
In truth, I continue to be shocked, and fascinated, at the ingenious ways PPC models can be exploited. If an advertiser pays $50 per click without due accountability made for conversion, imagine how many immigrant workers a person can employ at sweat shops in the States (IP matching) willing to click and hold for 30secs at a landing page at a labor cost of $1 per $1,000 qualified human clicks.

I do see a solution to this state of affairs, but was wondering if domainers here really understand the serverity of the issue today and enormity of the challenge we all face when it comes to responsible traffic generation and management.

More importantly, what can we do to protect the valued notion of 'traffic' and 'unique visitors'?

This industry does not like "whistle blowers", but does this industry see the looming backlash and have a modus operandi of "steal all the gold before the giant wakes up"?


>> In truth, I continue to be shocked, and fascinated, at the ingenious ways PPC models can be exploited.

You may call them ingenious but most that "actually" pay for clicks call them criminal.

>> If an advertiser pays $50 per click without due accountability made for conversion, imagine how many immigrant workers a person can employ at sweat shops in the States (IP matching) willing to click and hold for 30secs at a landing page at a labor cost of $1 per $1,000 qualified human clicks.

Yes and you could probably hire a few homeless people to rob banks if you paid them enough.

>> I do see a solution to this state of affairs, but was wondering if domainers here really understand the serverity of the issue today and enormity of the challenge we all face when it comes to responsible traffic generation and management.

It is very severe and I can't wait until the major players put together a white list. Overture is already an invite only affiliate program and they are extremely picky with whom they allow publish their ads. Google will eventually do the same as they see CPC rates drop significantly. Some bad apples will ruin this opportunity for thousands of good people.

>> More importantly, what can we do to protect the valued notion of 'traffic' and 'unique visitors'?

Stop posting these types of threads as there are a ton of low-life scammers that will read this thread and form ideas.

>> This industry does not like "whistle blowers", but does this industry see the looming backlash and have a modus operandi of "steal all the gold before the giant wakes up"?[/QUOTE]

I would recommend all webmasters report anything they think is remotely fraudulent to Google. If someone approaches you with an idea that is fraudulent then report the person. And most of all, lets stop giving these criminals ideas. It is almost as asinine as the media publishing easy ways terrorist can enter nuclear plants or get into a plane. We're in a way feeding the fire by talking about it.
 
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