epik What's the point of Epik Forever Registration?

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This is a discussion about the domain name registrar/company Epik.
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I would just like to push back on this point, for those of you who don't understand the Forever Domains and why they're great for the right customer.

Yep. Epik can do a lot to appreciate the value of the 399 deposit. Buy what does that do for the domainer? The domainer can save the 399, pay annual renewal through regular auto renew, and appreciate that money which will go to their pocket.

It seems you don't have a problem understanding that Epik can do a lot to appreciate the value of the $399 deposit over time - one of the problems appears to be that you don't understand it from the domainer perspective - and that's perfectly fine.

I'm assuming here, and correct me if I'm wrong, that one the issues is it that...

accurate

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You can't transfer out. That voids the Forever Registration per the agreement.

Are there penalties for transferring a "forever domain" out of Epik. @Epik, can you comment on this? Or will you remain silent forever?

I would imagine at transfer out the forever reg part is canceled, so no need for a formal written request.
 
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Steff

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You can't transfer out. That voids the Forever Registration per the agreement.
So you can transfer out if you choose to, but this will nullify the forever reg and negate the necessity to write Epik requesting to cancel it. That's the part I don't understand in the agreement, to write to Epik if you want to suspend the forever reg. If you paid already, in what scenario would that be necessary? Unless you can recover some of the money.
 

accurate

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Yes, this is my understanding per the Forever Registration agreement here.


So you can transfer out if you choose to, but this will nullify the forever reg and negate the necessity to write Epik requesting to cancel it.

Why do you care if you aren't going to use the service? :)

That's the part I don't understand in the agreement, to write to Epik if you want to suspend the forever reg.

I have no idea. I assume sometimes people sell a domain name on Forever Registration and the new owner wants to transfer out. @Epik would have to comment.

I doubt you can recover money.

If you paid already, in what scenario would that be necessary? Unless you can recover some of the money.
 

Steff

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Why do you care if you aren't going to use the service?
I care about those that might fall for this scam.
I have no idea. I assume sometimes people sell a domain name on Forever Registration and the new owner wants to transfer out.
If the transfer out automatically cancels the forever reg then why bother with writing a formal request. Doesn't make sense.
 

amplify

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I care about those that might fall for this scam.
Please stop referring to it as a scam. The only way that you can get away with that is arguing from ignorance. An Epik staff member already stated who Forever is for, which sounds like it's not for you, and I've even provided one example in which as a domain seller that I would want to terminate Forever.

If you continue to argue from ignorance, I'll quote the staff member's reply and lock the thread so that it doesn't forever (get it?) go in circles and ends with answering the question posed in the title.

Forever is not for you. Noted. It's probably not for 99% of people on here that don't have a $50,000 name. But, the answer has been provided, you just don't like it. We're not going to beat a dead horse though.
 

Steff

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Please stop referring to it as a scam. The only way that you can get away with that is arguing from ignorance. An Epik staff member already stated who Forever is for, which sounds like it's not for you, and I've even provided one example in which as a domain seller that I would want to terminate Forever.
Sorry, but arguing from ignorance are those that argue for it. According to TOS from Epik, the forever reg is a first 10 year reg or renewal then 1 year renewals after that. The cost of the forever reg is 399 last I checked, that's like 40 years worth. You are much better of renewing for 10 years at around 99 and/or put your domain on auto. Then you have the flexibility of changing registrars, which happens all the time, and not lose your money.

And why no answers to basic questions about Epik's published statements and claims? I didn't ask nicely enough? Is that it?
 

base

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I am against "Forever Registration" because it does not exist. If you call it "Perpetual Renewal" that would be different because it would reflect more closely the product description. Now, if you have a 6 figure domain, is the "Forever Registration" as offered by Epik sufficient protection?
I think you're taking it literally. It's common for companies to brand their services with catchy terms that allude to something as a sort of connection or feeling. Personally I don't find anything wrong with it, we all know there is no such thing as forever.

Perpetual renewal is a better way to describe it, but Forever Registration is a better way to sell it.
 

amplify

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Sorry, but arguing from ignorance are those that argue for it
Good. You're starting to understand the fallacy now.

Anyway, this has been changed to a question and the response from @JLJ has been marked as the solution to prominently be displayed at top, so continue discussing this to your hearts content.

Hugs
 

amplify

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The cost of the forever reg is 399 last I checked, that's like 40 years worth.
Using simple math, yes. But you haven't taken in .com and the 7% price increases year over year. After the 10th year, we could very well have $20 per year renewals. With basic math applied to that, it gives one more 10 year registration renewal to break even, making 20 years and not the 40 as suggested.

What domainer doesn't or hasn't seen a 20 year old domain to think it won't ever turn 40?
 

accurate

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Yeah people forget that .com prices will be increasing every few years now.
Using simple math, yes. But you haven't taken in .com and the 7% price increases year over year. After the 10th year, we could very well have $20 per year renewals. With basic math applied to that, it gives one more 10 year registration renewal to break even, making 20 years and not the 40 as suggested.

What domainer doesn't or hasn't seen a 20 year old domain to think it won't ever turn 40?
 

amplify

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This is literally how everyone here arguing semantics looks like.

1637218073052.png

We get it already. Forever Registration is not for you.
 

amplify

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Yeah people forget that .com prices will be increasing every few years now.
And this is just the 7% we know about. After we go through an inflationary period (better be prepared, it's coming) and wake up on the other side, that might increase to 10, 12, or even 20% to catch up on the next year, further making the basic math less than 20 years to break even.

Easy to do 399 divided by 10 (current registration price) to get 40 years, but that's not how money works and is a very disingenuous argument to make unless you really don't know about inflation or the price increases that are going into effect.
 

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Are there penalties for transferring a "forever domain" out of Epik. @Epik, can you comment on this? Or will you remain silent forever?
Hello @Steff - there are zero penalties for transferring out a Forever Registered/Renewed Domain.
However, once the domain is transferred out that nullifies the forever renewal attached to the domain. This means that when the domain comes up for renewal, the registrant will be responsible to pay for the renewal at whatever Registrar the domain is residing with.

I would encourage you to review the information at this link as it might help answer some of your questions, https://www.epik.com/forever/. Our Customer Support staff are available as well 24x7 via phone, chat, and email if you have further questions. Thank you for taking the time to review this solution.
 

Tom K.

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I think you're taking it literally. It's common for companies to brand their services with catchy terms that allude to something as a sort of connection or feeling. Personally I don't find anything wrong with it, we all know there is no such thing as forever.

Perpetual renewal is a better way to describe it, but Forever Registration is a better way to sell it.
It is fine to use catchy memorable terms to label services. However, you have to differentiate between a label and a description of a service. IMO, Epik is not just labeling a service but making the phrase part of their product description. You have to read the fine print. Actually their TOS is not that long. But what you are getting is a 10 year one-time registration then year to year renewal. You can do that at any registrar. So you can see how it looks like false advertising and seems to be a way to gouge registrants out of way more money.
This is literally how everyone here arguing semantics looks like.

View attachment 5742

We get it already. Forever Registration is not for you.
Now this is a false equivalency argument fallacy. No one believes that if they shop at Forever 21 they will literally be 21 forever. That is laughable. Obviously this brand is playing to a mental attitude. No one can accuse them of falsely selling that you will be 21 forever. This is an absolute ridiculous comparison. You should be ashamed of yourself.
 

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I'm assuming here, and correct me if I'm wrong, that one the issues is it that most people here don't understand the economics and that Forever Domains play in both the registrant and the registrar favor in the medium to short term. You should probably read up on calculating CLV, and imagine how that - given the areas that Epik operates in - plays out over time.
Since your post has been placed on top of the thread as the SOLUTION, we will have to dissect it. You do realize that CLV benefits only Epik and not the customer, right?
 

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Hello @Steff - there are zero penalties for transferring out a Forever Registered/Renewed Domain.
However, once the domain is transferred out that nullifies the forever renewal attached to the domain. This means that when the domain comes up for renewal, the registrant will be responsible to pay for the renewal at whatever Registrar the domain is residing with.
Thank you for responding. I have a couple of questions.

1) What happens to my payment for forever reg if I would sell the business and domain to a new owner who wants to move the domain to a different registrar? I cannot use the forever reg as an added feature/insentive for the sale, can I?

2) What happens to my forever reg should Epik file for bankruptcy in the future and Rob reboots under a different company name?
 

amplify

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Now this is a false equivalency argument fallacy. No one believes that if they shop at Forever 21 they will literally be 21 forever. That is laughable. Obviously this brand is playing to a mental attitude. No one can accuse them of falsely selling that you will be 21 forever. This is an absolute ridiculous comparison. You should be ashamed of yourself.
And nobody believes Forever Registration will last forever as the world can end tomorrow. You're really just arguing semantics about what Forever means. It's already stated in the policy, pointed out a couple of times, that it's a 10-year registration and then goes year by year "forever" (however long forever is) following that one purchase and "never" expires as pointed out by @accurate.

You still look like that arguing it though because you either really don't understand marketing or are hanging on a word that is already defined but don't believe the promise can be executed. And no, I'm not ashamed, I'm astonished that you're still arguing a word because it goes back to just arguing from ignorance at this point.

How about this: What should Forever Registration be called?
 

amplify

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If you call it "Perpetual Renewal" that would be different because it would reflect more closely the product description.
I had a thought this afternoon of reading levels to target the broader market of English speakers. Unfortunately, there's no list of what word is at which level. However, I did find a list of words more frequently used which can be an indicator of which words can be written to describe the same things but understood by more people.

In that list, "forever" ranks 808 while "perpetual" ranks 15868.

Further, "perpetual" is an orange colored synonym for "forever" on Thesaurus.com. This would tell me as a writer that it's 2nd level. What forever and perpetual do have in common is "endless" though (rank 5191). So if I were writing a topic on something never-ending, I would most likely use endless as another descriptor to drive the point home.

When it comes to marketing, on the other hand, and in my opinion without conducting a focus group to see which name is better, I would say that endless has more of a negative connotation over forever. Therefore, I'd use forever over endless when describing a product or service with continuous (rank 11886) a close second.

Just my opinion. I have no skin in the game as I don't have a Forever domain. I just have no reason to believe that Epik will make any attempt to get out of their contractual agreement to Forever registrants, and that's what this argument basically comes down to in the end.

This is essentially arguing sneakers over running shoes though... You essentially know what you're getting when you go shopping, but will typically just tell "outsiders" (so to speak as they are not participating in the same activity) that you're going shoe/sneaker shopping as opposed to telling them you're looking for running shoes, trail/hiking shoes or walking shoes.

At any rate, arguing the topic further is exhausting so I'm going to see my way out of this one. You win I guess? In reality, Epik customers that choose Forever and know they might hold the domain for 15 or more years (which isn't an unreasonable amount of time considering when the 1st domain was created) will actually win. ;)
 
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