Partnercash.com sells for $110k ??

[financialtraffic]

Right, but what's the value of those customers? How many actually have internet access? How many can afford to buy products? And even if they meet that criteria, are there companies that will fulfill the products for them? Many don't even want to get involved in global shipping to isolated regions.

Suddenly your massive numbers dwindle, even when targeting the audience locally with their own characters.

My point is why would companies want to target only that extremly select, minor, tiny percentage of users in places like China for example, when they could target everybody who can write Chinese?

Of 100% audience who are locally literate why would you target only 0.000001% (who understand english aphabet) when you can target those 99.99999% (who understand local characters)?

My goodness, we are sweating buckets here claiming that nothing other than .com is worth developing because we lose audience/customers when they type in .com, instead of .net (or what have you), but we are totally cool with the idea that is perfectly acceptable (from a business point of view) to target only those few who understand English, instead of targeting all of them who understand local?

Our own thinking makes no sense, now does it?

 

[sasquatch]

Hmm, what's that quote again..."The language of business is English."

Go to any mainland Chinese province and ask them what is the language of their business? That's just an old B2B rhetoric not quite applicable in the scenario I'm talking about, because my scenario is B2C. In fact, a few years ago I've met a City of Miami cop who didn't speak English (but he apologized nicely) :cheeky:

 

[DaddyHalbucks]

My point is why would companies want to target only that extremly select, minor, tiny percentage of users in places like China for example, when they could target everybody who can write Chinese?

Of 100% audience who are locally literate why would you target only 0.000001% (who understand english aphabet) when you can target those 99.99999% (who understand local characters)?

My goodness, we are sweating buckets here claiming that nothing other than .com is worth developing because we lose audience/customers when they type in .com, instead of .net (or what have you), but we are totally cool with the idea that is perfectly acceptable (from a business point of view) to target only those few who understand English, instead of targeting all of them who understand local?

Our own thinking makes no sense, now does it?

There is no disputing that the billions of non-English speaking people in the world are a potentially VERY juicy market.

The question here is: are IDNs the right technology for the job? Can they accomplish that job abroad without causing massive problems at home?

It looks doubtful.

I'd rather bet on Google as the world's start page.

 

[sasquatch]

Right, but what's the value of those customers? How many actually have internet access? How many can afford to buy products? And even if they meet that criteria, are there companies that will fulfill the products for them? Many don't even want to get involved in global shipping to isolated regions.

Suddenly your massive numbers dwindle, even when targeting the audience locally with their own characters.

I'm talking about targeting them from there, not from here. See above references about "blending with the crowd" and dominating them "from within". It is, for example, appropriate for those American companies who are present in China, or who will be making a permanent base in China in upcoming years (and all the biggest players are either there now, or will be there soon). It is also for those Chinese-based subsidiaries of American companies. You go in there and little by little with the improvement of Chinese economy use every little trick and possibility at your disposal to your advantage. Accessing webpage via local address is given, because if your web page is in Chinese (like those samples I gave above somwhere), and your access address is in English, you're in essence negating your own web site content? If body of your ad copy is in Chinese, your ad destination should also be in Chinese (you can put English alongside if you want, but the primarily advertised destination should be in Chinese because it will ensure that every literate pair of Chinese eyeballs will understand it).

Imagine how many new websites can be created using Chinese addresses? Imagine how many of these new websites can be commercial in nature? Imagine who's gonna own those most successful web businesses, or web presences? It will be Americans of course (mostly via means of locally successful buyouts). As American business in China if you can create and fulfill those needs via locally based means, the big percentage of your profits will end up in U.S. That's the bottom line of it all.

Same goes for Arabic countries. Although American politicians, and most of the world, would probably love for Arabs to speak English exclusively, the truth of the matter is it wil take some time before that happens. :smartass: In the meantime, there are markets to pillage. As an American business in Arab countries, you are really setting yourself for tough times, not only in terms of boycot, but other stuff. As a business (and not politician) why would you advertise Coca-Cola (as a banal example) in English, when you can do it in Arabic etc. These are just simple examples. Once you have market in your hands, than you can do whatever you want and can take it in any direction from there, but until then you better be cunning about your aims.

That is why it is in tremendous interest of American business to "think globally, and act locally".

The localized web address is only one, if essential step in that direction, in the new economy times we live in.

 

[Rubber Duck]

I'm talking about targeting them from there, not from here. See above references about "blending with the crowd" and dominating them "from within". It is, for example, appropriate for those American companies who are present in China, or who will be making a permanent base in China in upcoming years (and all the biggest players are either there now, or will be there soon). It is also for those Chinese-based subsidiaries of American companies. You go in there and little by little with the improvement of Chinese economy use every little trick and possibility at your disposal to your advantage. Accessing webpage via local address is given, because if your web page is in Chinese (like those samples I gave above somwhere), and your access address is in English, you're in essence negating your own web site content? If body of your ad copy is in Chinese, your ad destination should also be in Chinese (you can put English alongside if you want, but the primarily advertised destination should be in Chinese because it will ensure that every literate pair of Chinese eyeballs will understand it).

Imagine how many new websites can be created using Chinese addresses? Imagine how many of these new websites can be commercial in nature? Imagine who's gonna own those most successful web businesses, or web presences? It will be Americans of course (mostly via means of locally successful buyouts). As American business in China if you can create and fulfill those needs via locally based means, the big percentage of your profits will end up in U.S. That's the bottom line of it all.

Same goes for Arabic countries. Although American politicians, and most of the world, would probably love for Arabs to speak English exclusively, the truth of the matter is it wil take some time before that happens. :smartass: In the meantime, there are markets to pillage. As an American business in Arab countries, you are really setting yourself for tough times, not only in terms of boycot, but other stuff. As a business (and not politician) why would you advertise Coca-Cola (as a banal example) in English, when you can do it in Arabic etc. These are just simple examples. Once you have market in your hands, than you can do whatever you want and can take it in any direction from there, but until then you better be cunning about your aims.

That is why it is in tremendous interest of American business to "think globally, and act locally".

The localized web address is only one, if essential step in that direction, in the new economy times we live in.

Dear sasquatch,

I have to congratulate you on the lucidity and strength of your arguments, but frankly these guys have done projections on their English dot coms and think they are going to gain traffic exponentially in line with the growth in global internet connections. You and I know that won't happen. They believe by trying to kill off IDN they can turn the situation around.

Frankly, it doesn't matter because nothing they say or do will change jack sheet, as you might say it. IDN is happening. Within two years China will have more Broadband connection than the US. People will use IDN to access the internet, and even where they don't, the dot coms etc they use will be barely intelligible to the likes of me and you. They will not be using the currently high value generics that are applicable to the US market.

The rate of US internet connections is slowing. Type in traffic in the US will gradually taper off as people go over to search. The registration in domains will gradually become more widely distributed between TLDs and dot com will still continue to grow in value, but not at the exponential rates that most people are predicting.

The one big thing holding up IDN is the release of the new MS browser, and that is on its way. Ok, it will take a few year for PPC services, secondary domain auctions, and Google Adwords in local languages to be fully up and running, but it is all coming and that ain't nothing anyone can say or do to stop it.

Best Regards
Dave Wrixon

 

[financialtraffic]

IDN touters remind me exactly of Penny stock pumpers on financial message boards. No offense here, I'm just saying that your zealous take on the IDN market is very similar.

They are always talking about the future and how they can predict it. I think they only end up missing out on today.

I admire branching out into the unknown. IDNs are unknown for the most part. It's unknown if they will ever become a viable portion of the Internet. And most people don't even have an idea of what they or why they'd be useful.

Just remember that .Com is a proven standard that is backed by Billions of dollars in both investment and advertisement. Just think about commercials......"Expedia DOT COM" and countless others flood the TV, Radio, and Media in whole every minute of every day. When something is "big business" it's very difficult to change even when there is a strong catalyst. Think about gasoline. Everyone said that the gas engine will be phased out in the future. They've been saying that for decades. And they say it more often when gas prices get high. But the fact is gas engines work well and even with high gas prices, people and nations are unlikely to change something that as a whole still works.

Type-in traffic is growing for quality Dot com domains. I have quite a few .com domains including many one word domains. I do not notice any sort of drop-off in traffic. In fact, as more baby-boomers retire and become more comfortable with computers, you're going to see just the opposite. Remember, it's still mostly younger people who actively use the Internet. But this is changing every year.

Basically, the .Com holders have become blue chip stock holders. Those who can't afford to get into blue chips now love to speculate in penny stocks, and emerging markets.

IDNs are exactly that. An emerging market with no certainty. Huge risk does sometimes offer huge reward. And I hope you guys do get something back for all of the faith you put into IDNs.

 

[DomainSalesAgent]

.

 

[Rubber Duck]

IDN touters remind me exactly of Penny stock pumpers on financial message boards. No offense here, I'm just saying that your zealous take on the IDN market is very similar.

They are always talking about the future and how they can predict it. I think they only end up missing out on today.

I admire branching out into the unknown. IDNs are unknown for the most part. It's unknown if they will ever become a viable portion of the Internet. And most people don't even have an idea of what they or why they'd be useful.

Just remember that .Com is a proven standard that is backed by Billions of dollars in both investment and advertisement. Just think about commercials......"Expedia DOT COM" and countless others flood the TV, Radio, and Media in whole every minute of every day. When something is "big business" it's very difficult to change even when there is a strong catalyst. Think about gasoline. Everyone said that the gas engine will be phased out in the future. They've been saying that for decades. And they say it more often when gas prices get high. But the fact is gas engines work well and even with high gas prices, people and nations are unlikely to change something that as a whole still works.

Type-in traffic is growing for quality Dot com domains. I have quite a few .com domains including many one word domains. I do not notice any sort of drop-off in traffic. In fact, as more baby-boomers retire and become more comfortable with computers, you're going to see just the opposite. Remember, it's still mostly younger people who actively use the Internet. But this is changing every year.

Basically, the .Com holders have become blue chip stock holders. Those who can't afford to get into blue chips now love to speculate in penny stocks, and emerging markets.

IDNs are exactly that. An emerging market with no certainty. Huge risk does sometimes offer huge reward. And I hope you guys do get something back for all of the faith you put into IDNs.

This nonsense. Pennystock are being touted to me by spam all day every day.
I even have the Chinese and Russian at it! The difference with IDN is that they actually will provide a useful service for most of the world which was failed and excluded by the original DNS system. The whole point the DNS is provide a more familiar way of accessing the internet than using IP numbers, which of course still work. The whole point of the DNS system is that it allows browsers to use language instead of numerical strings. If, however, that language is less familiar than numerical strings that they represent, the system is futile.

Try looking at it with boot on the other foot. If the American public were actually being asked to access the internet in Chinese characters, which nobody has even suggested that they should, then there would be outrage. And don't forget it only a couple of generations ago that the Chinese were colonised by the Japanese and then had British warships on the Yangtze river. River. It not just a question of seemless access, but also of national pride.

The Chinese use dot coms more than dot cn and that won't actually change as dot com supports IDN. The chinese would of course like to use a local representation of the dot com extension, but as long as it seen as being an international TLD rather than a tool of American neo-colonialism, then of course they will want to use dot com as well, albeit largely in its IDN form.

What is not going to happen is, that suddenly from nowhere, people are going to start spontaniously typing in by using using a Chinese/English dictionary. Their main input device will be for Chinese characters, so all the arguments of extended keyboards is likely to apply in reverse. They would need to have their desktop cluttered with an English keyboard for no other purpose than to type foreign words into the addres bar.

At present the situation is so dire that their main method of access is by Chinese Keyword service such 3721.com. This clearly is not an acceptable alternative to proper direct internet access enjoyed by the developed world.

In brief the pennystock analogy just won't hold water.

Best Regards
Dave Wrixon



RESONSE TO DomainSalesAgent

There is no debate on marketing and website in local lingo etc. That is already happening everywhere.

AGREED.

The debate in relation to localized IDN URLs...
Is it really so difficult to type in a few letters like sohu.com, 163.com or Google.cn, Paypal.cn ?!

AGREED BUT THIS IN ITSELF SUGGESTS THAT THEY WILL REQUIRE A PORTAL TO ACCESS THE INTERNET AND THAT GOOGLE WILL REMOVE ANY SIGNIFICANCE OF KEYWORDS FROM ITS SEARCH ALOGORITHMS. NOT SOMETHING YOU DOT COMMERS SHOULD REALLY BE ADVOCATING.

Or will it somehow dilute the experience for locals when the rest of the site is in the local language but the URL is English?
The people in China (and India) using the Internet are usually educated (English starts from c 7yrs?) so they should have no problem with the English URL. To be blunt its not the uneducated unwashed masses who are using the internet. Applies to everywhere in the world.
And where else do you think all that Chinese traffic that doesn't convert comes from? LOL
Also many words are universal eg. Poker, Sex, Internet...and will get type-ins.

I DONT BELIEVE IT IS THE IDNERS THAT ARE THE ONES BEING CONDESCENDING HERE. YOUR INFERENCE IS THAT THERE OWN MOTHER TONGUE, WHICH IS MANY CASES IS SPOKEN BY A HELL OF A LOT MORE PEOPLE THAN ACTUALLY SPEAK ENGLISH IS SOMEHOW NOT VALID. WE HAD A SIMILAR SITUATION WITH THE FRENCH TWO DECADES AGO AS THE ENGLISH COMMUNITY WAS INSISTENT AT ONE POINT THAT OPERATING SYSTEMS COULD ONLY BE ACCESSED IN ENGLISH. ONE OF THE REASONS THAT THE GRAPHICAL USER INTERFACE WAS INTRODUCED WAS TO GET ROUND THE LANGUAGE PROBLEM.

Moreover, buying IDN domains is hardly the leap of faith like getting .COMs 10 years ago. And remember, back around c1997 this was BEFORE many people (including many domainers here) were even on the internet!
More like a quantum (very small) leap at most in the grand scheme of things.

NO BUYING IDN SHOULD NOT BE A LEAP OF FAITH, UNLESS YOU ARE CONVINCED BY THE ARGUMENTS ABOVE FOR EXSPONGING IT FROM THE INTERNET.

And while there have been small number of sales in German IDNs it can EASILY (and increasingly so) be circumvented by using eg. -oe- for u+umlaut etc. Similar for Spanish words too. No problem.
Definitely will NOT see the $10,000s sales. Strictly niche.
So your only hope is Chinese/Korean etc IDN domains.

GERMANS ARE HUGE INVESTORS IN IDN. WHILST THERE ARE LESS THAN 300k DOT DE REGISTERED, I BELIEVE THEY HAVE ALREADY REGISTERED ABOUT A MILLION IN TOTAL, MOSTLY DOT COM AND SIGNIFICANT NUMBERS OF THESE ARE NOT GERMAN, BUT CHINESE.

Price is a function of (ultimately corporate end-user) demand and I just don't see it ever catching on with the big boys who always lead and influence the market.

Not until Ebay.com.cn, Paypal.cn, Sina.com, Netease.com, 163.com, ChinaTelecom, ChinaMobile, Legend, Haier and 1000s others start using IDN URLs. Why would they, esp. as many of these names are NOT GENERIC. It's called branding, LOL.


So what's the catalyst for the change in users habits for them to "use IDN to access the internet"?

IN KOREA THERE IS NO NEED AS THEY ARE WIDELY USED AND ACCEPTED.

IN CHINA THERE HAS BEEN LIMITED INDIGENOUS DEVELOPMENT OF WEBSITES IN GENERAL. SITES LIKE SINA AND BAIDU LARGELY ORIGINATE FROM CALIFORNIA. WHILST THE CHINESE ARE ALREADY BIG BROWSERS, THEY ARE SMALL TIME DEVELOPERS AT PRESENT. THE CHINESE GOVERNMENT IS ACTIVELY PROMOTING THE USE OF IDN SUPPORTED BY i-dns.net OF SINGAPORE, WHOSE APPROACH IS CONTRAVERSIAL AND SERIOUSLY RISKS FRAGMENTATION OF THE INTERNET AS IT IS EFFECTIVELY USURPING THE TOP TLDS DOT COM AND DOT NET.

Will Joe Chan six-packs lead the way by getting IDN DOMAINS and starting website development on them en-masse?

NO

Or even if that happens will his likely half-assed attempt further erode the equity of whatever IDN-domains had?
And somehow the Big Boys are going to follow this lead, right?
Status quo rules. If not, explain how?

YEAH, LIKE BIG BLUE STILL DOMINATES THE COMPUTER HARDWARE MARKET.

And provided (and they are) these companies require int'l capital and foreign stock exchanges they will ALWAYS have that ENGLISH-name DOMAIN.

THAT IS PRETTY IRONIC WHEN YOU CONSIDER THAT JAPAN AND CHINA ARE KEEPING AN INSOLVENT AMERICA AFLOAT WITH THEIR EXCESS CASH.

So you are right: jack sheet is gonna happen until de big boys start using them.
Ain't nuthin' you small specs (or even VAxis, LOL) is going to change that.

And if you are nervous because you have "bet the farm" and over "invested" in IDN domains, there is an investment saying: Sell down to your "sleeping level".

ANY SPECULATOR LIVES ON THE ADRENALIN AND THIS IS NO DIFFERENT. YES I WOULD LIKE TO AFFORD HOLIDAY HOMES IN THE SUN AND I AM INPATIENT FOR THAT TO HAPPEN. I DON'T DOUBT THAT IT WILL, ITS MORE A MATTER OF TIMESCALE. I AM FED UP WITH HAVING TO WORK, AND I WANT TO ENJOY THE REWARDS WHILST I AM STILL YOUNG ENOUGH.

Best Regards
Dave Wrixon

 

[mole]

People fear change for one and only one reason, it degrades what they are strong at. Well, like it or not, change will happen. For a start, the value of porno .COMs will be put in suspect when .XXX and government legislations kick in hard and brutally.

And like it or not, the Chinese in China aren't going to type in some roman characters on the left of the dot because some self-serving lizard of a .COM speculator with 10,000 .coms in the West says they should.

IDNs are being tested all over Asia as we speak. Live with it!

 

[Rubber Duck]

People fear change for one and only one reason, it degrades what they are strong at. Well, like it or not, change will happen. For a start, the value of porno .COMs will be put in suspect when .XXX and government legislations kick in hard and brutally.

And like it or not, the Chinese in China aren't going to type in some roman characters on the left of the dot because some self-serving lizard of a .COM speculator with 10,000 .coms in the West says they should.

IDNs are being tested all over Asia as we speak. Live with it!

Frankly Mole, I think because the Chinaman down at the local takeaway can say Egg Fu-Yung in English, these guys think the whole of the PRC is equally fluent!

Best Regards
Dave Wrixon

 

[sasquatch]

Why would behemoth American companies with world's most recognizable brands still have a need to create their iconic logos in local lingo?

http://tools.schwimmerlegal.com/largecoke.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y58/Castellanos334/PepsiVsCoke.jpg

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2005/20050120/biz2.jpg

http://www.inmoskau.de/weblog/mc_donalds.jpg

http://www.fresno.k12.ca.us/schools/s090/history/japan_mcdon.gif

http://www.monasette.com/blog/gallery/tokyo/mcdonalds.jpg

http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1605000/images/_1608374_macdonalds_ap300.jpg

http://photo.darcy.co.nz/albums/Guangzhou/KIF_1972.sized.jpg

http://www.gssc.vic.edu.au/Studies_of_asia/Asia_Images/McDonalds advertisement.jpg

http://images.collectibles.goantiques.com/thumbnails2/IZF7283/IZF7283B333_20C5.jpg

When these guys have to play, in large parts, by the rules of local cultures (at least for now) imagine how will it be for the owners of more anonymous brands, or for the western companies who don't even have any recognizable brands to begin with, or for the western companies that are not even in existence yet and will form at some point later on for the sole purpose in playing the local markets?

 

[Rubber Duck]

Why would behemoth American companies with world's most recognizable brands still have a need to create their iconic logos in local lingo?

http://tools.schwimmerlegal.com/largecoke.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y58/Castellanos334/PepsiVsCoke.jpg

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2005/20050120/biz2.jpg

http://www.inmoskau.de/weblog/mc_donalds.jpg

http://www.fresno.k12.ca.us/schools/s090/history/japan_mcdon.gif

http://www.monasette.com/blog/gallery/tokyo/mcdonalds.jpg

http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1605000/images/_1608374_macdonalds_ap300.jpg

http://photo.darcy.co.nz/albums/Guangzhou/KIF_1972.sized.jpg

http://www.gssc.vic.edu.au/Studies_of_asia/Asia_Images/McDonalds advertisement.jpg

http://images.collectibles.goantiques.com/thumbnails2/IZF7283/IZF7283B333_20C5.jpg

When these guys have to play, in large parts, by the rules of local cultures (at least for now) imagine how will it be for the owners of more anonymous brands, or for the western companies who don't even have any recognizable brands to begin with, or for the western companies that are not even in existence yet and will form at some point later on for the sole purpose in playing the local markets?

Thanks for that sasquatch,

Seems obvious to me that you would wish to present your domain to match your local branding. Surely, whatever type-in or keyword searches are out there are going to reflect what people actually see stamped on the product. Or perhaps we should expect them to use Mao's little red book to translate what they see on the high street back into the English version, so that they can locate the website. The more you study this, this more it perverse the arguments of the anti-IDN lobby appear.

Best Regards
Dave Wrixon

 

[financialtraffic]

And like it or not, the Chinese in China aren't going to type in some roman characters on the left of the dot because some self-serving lizard of a .COM speculator with 10,000 .coms in the West says they should.----------------------------------------

Mole, what kind of comment is that? "Self-serving lizard of a .Com speculator" ??

That doesn't even make sense. All of us here are speculators and self serving to a point. If not, then you're just doing this as a joy hobby or as a charity. For most of us it's at least a side business, if not more.

It's been thoroughly demonstrated that the most of the powerful companies in the world who control business, advertising and distribution, have come to fully embrace standard .Coms.

IDNs may become a viable tool. And I'm not saying there isn't any value in them. But, they dilute your pipeline so greatly that there can NEVER have the type of value that there is in standard .Com domains.

Think about it. Standard .Com consolidates the most powerful markets by FAR into one pipeline. All you're doing with IDNs is splitting your pipeline into dozens of small pipes.

There just isn't the same type of value. Never will be.

 

[mole]

Mole, what kind of comment is that? "Self-serving lizard of a .Com speculator" ??

:-D

 

[Rubber Duck]

It's been thoroughly demonstrated that the most of the powerful companies in the world who control business, advertising and distribution, have come to fully embrace standard .Coms.

FRANKLY THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN STANDARD DOT COMS AND IDN DOT COMS IS SYMANTICS. THE ONLY REAL DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE IDN CODE AND THE GOBBLEDEGOOK OF MORE THAN 50% OF THE DOT COMS REGISTERED, IS THAT THE IDNS WILL AT LEAST DECODE INTO SOMETHING MEANINGFUL.

IDNs may become a viable tool. And I'm not saying there isn't any value in them. But, they dilute your pipeline so greatly that there can NEVER have the type of value that there is in standard .Com domains.

FRANKLY, I FEEL THAT IT IS THE DILUTION OF YOUR PIPELINE THAT IS THE ISSUE HERE.

Think about it. Standard .Com consolidates the most powerful markets by FAR into one pipeline. All you're doing with IDNs is splitting your pipeline into dozens of small pipes.

IF YOU ARE USING THE PIPELINE ANALOGY, THE ENGLISH DOT COM ARGUMENT IS LIKE TRYING TO CONCENTRATE THE ENTIRE RUN OF FROM THE ROCKY MOUNTAINS INTO THE HOOVER DAM.

DIFFERENT CATCHMENTS NEED THEIR OWN INFRUSTRUCTURE. NOW MATTER HOW HARD YOU SEARCH THERE IS GOING TO BE NO ONE POINT WHERE ALL THE TRAFFIC CAN BE CONCENTRATED.

ENGLISH IS NOT EVEN THE WORLDS MOST USED LANGUAGE. INFACT, AS A FIRST MOTHER TONGUE IT RATES FOURTH AFTER SPANISH. THE ONLY REASON THAT ENGLISH HAS THE IMPORTANCE IT DOES TODAY IN THE COMPUTER WORLD IS BECAUSE WE GOT THERE FIRST. IT IS ALL DOWN HILL FROM HERE ON IN.

OK RUSSIA LOST THE COLD WAR, AND CHINA THE IDEOLOGICAL ARGUMENT. ATTEMPTS HOWEVER, TO FORCE THE CULTURE OF THE VICTORIOUS AMERICA ON THEM HOWEVER WILL ONLY CAUSE RESENTMENT. FOR INDIANS ENGLISH IS LITTLE MORE THAN LEGACY OF THEIR COLONIAL PAST. FOR MOST ARABS IT THE LANGUAGE OF PEOPLE THAT THEY DEEPLY MISTRUST. ALL THESE PEOPLES NEED THE INTERNET TO REFLECT THEIR OWN CULTURAL IDENTITY. COMMERCE WILL REQUIRE THAT URLS REFLECT THEIR KEYWORDS AND BRANDS. IT IS GOING TO BE A TOUGH CALL AS IT WOULD APPEAR THAT WE HAVE A LOT OF NO BRAINERS WORKING ON THE SOLUTION.

There just isn't the same type of value. Never will be.

IF CHINA EVENTUALLY OUTGROWS THE US IN TERMS OF GDP, THEN CLEARLY THE VALUE OF TYPE-IN THAT MARKET IS LIKELY TO EXCEED THAT OF THE US. STILL IT WON'T BE OF ANY CONSEQUENCE TO THOSE WHO DERIDE THE VALUE OF ANYTHING THAT IS NOT PRINTED IN ENGLISH, IF INDEED THAT IS WHAT THE AMERICANS ACTUALLY SPEAK!

BEST REGARDS
DAVE WRIXON

 

[JEsports]

Well i'll give you one thing ... you are atleast persistant and have done a very good job of convincing yourself

 

[financialtraffic]

IF CHINA EVENTUALLY OUTGROWS THE US IN TERMS OF GDP, THEN CLEARLY THE VALUE OF TYPE-IN THAT MARKET IS LIKELY TO EXCEED THAT OF THE US. STILL IT WON'T BE OF ANY CONSEQUENCE TO THOSE WHO DERIDE THE VALUE OF ANYTHING THAT IS NOT PRINTED IN ENGLISH, IF INDEED THAT IS WHAT THE AMERICANS ACTUALLY SPEAK!

BEST REGARDS
DAVE WRIXON

Dave,
I hope all countries grow and become more prosperous. I would be happy to see all countries have at least a basic standard of living. Many have made great strides in the last 50 years.

But the idea of China outgrowing the US is not realistic. It would take decades and decades for this to happen. It may happen 50 or 100 years from now -- I'm not disputing that. But are you going to care at that point?

To say that it's going to happen in the near term is not even a dream, it's outlandish.

For reference, China isn't even that far ahead of Canada. And also, you have to realize that the US pumps out more than 25 percent of the World's GDP.

That's JUST the United States! Also, the European Union doesn't really edge out the U.S. by much either.

What do you think the GDP of English speaking individuals is? I'm guessing you'll find that English speaking individuals abroad impact 60% of the World's GDP.

Fair? No. Will it change? Probably. But not quickly enough to matter.


References if you need them:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)

 

[Rubber Duck]

Well i'll give you one thing ... you are atleast persistant and have done a very good job of convincing yourself

Well, that is one way of looking at it, but actually 100s if not thousands of top internet specialist have come up with this, over an too greatly extended period of time, working under the leadership of ICANN with at least the tacit approval of the US Government. To take the least bit of credit for this huge collaberative effort really would be stretching my credibility beyond any rational limits.

Best Regards
Dave Wrixon

 

[sasquatch]

It's been thoroughly demonstrated that the most of the powerful companies in the world who control business, advertising and distribution, have come to fully embrace standard .Coms.

Yes, but as they move into the local markets that will be increasingly forced to adapt themelves to the local realities in the same way those world's most recognizable brands did in the samples I left in my previous post.

1) Let's say you're Expedia and you want to provide vacation packages to Chinese or Arabic population (I know it's bad, and somehwat implausible example, but nevertheless). If I understand you correctly, the only way you should do this is by providing that population with Expedia.com/cn or Expedia.cn web address? Now why in the world would you do that if 99% of the population does not understand that? Wouldn't you rather setup an accessible web address that reflects the name "Expedia.com" in local characters, so that 99% of the population will understand you? I mean you can still have your Expedia.cn, but you should have the local web address as your primary, or at least complimentary, force there. I mean is this so hard to comprehend?

2) Let's say you're newly formed American company (or e-commerce company) setup in order only to play in Chinese market (where competition is low, and population is hungry for goods/services) so you are entering this new foreign new market with all this culturally and socially different ways of doing things, with population that does not speak or understand your language or your Alphabet. How are you going to communicate to them? Given choice of representing yourself with your American alphabet name which is nothing more than a scrambled blur to most Chinese, or representing yourself with local characters which will ensure at least the initial recognition by everybody, what would you do?

IDNs may become a viable tool. And I'm not saying there isn't any value in them. But, they dilute your pipeline so greatly that there can NEVER have the type of value that there is in standard .Com domains. Think about it. Standard .Com consolidates the most powerful markets by FAR into one pipeline. All you're doing with IDNs is splitting your pipeline into dozens of small pipes.

Yes, but the world itself consists of many smaller pipelines. You can not expect billions of non-English speakers in the world (many of whom have nothing but disdain for American politics) to conform to you and the way you do things at home. At least not right away. You can not make an American mall goer out of Chinese villager overnight. It will take some smarts, some hard work, and time to do so. You will have to conform to them at first, by gaining their trust (respecting their ways of doing things) and by other culturally sensitive practice recogintions and acceptances. Although Americans would love to standardize the world to reflect their interests and values, that is simply not possible overnight. If it has to happen it will have to happen step-by-step (as I previously explained in my posts above).

There just isn't the same type of value. Never will be.

I think nobody here is saying there will be the same value with IDNs as there's with .coms. All I am saying is that some sort of locally accessible internet ways and means will have to be provided for thoze gazzilions around the world who don't understand any English, or can't write English alphabet. Therefore, following that logic the companies which decide to serve and support those markets will have to be culturally sensitive and will have to adapt themselves (to various degrees) to the norms and expectations (including linguistic) of those local cultures. That also means providing web addresses that are meaningful to the greatest numbers of local population. Following that logic, it is inevitable to speculate that some of these IDN domains (if they turn out be a standard practice in those countries) might become valuable in direct proportion not only to their meaning, but also to the company objective in that market, or market segment. As such, they will not dillute the values of "standard .coms" (as you call them) because they are not in direct competition to them, since the standard .coms serve largely Western markets. My argument is that IDNs will become complimentary to "standard .coms", and will exist not in any sort of tension with them, but in peaceful harmony alongside them.

 

[Rubber Duck]

Dave,
I hope all countries grow and become more prosperous. I would be happy to see all countries have at least a basic standard of living. Many have made great strides in the last 50 years.

But the idea of China outgrowing the US is not realistic. It would take decades and decades for this to happen. It may happen 50 or 100 years from now -- I'm not disputing that. But are you going to care at that point?

To say that it's going to happen in the near term is not even a dream, it's outlandish.

For reference, China isn't even that far ahead of Canada. And also, you have to realize that the US pumps out more than 25 percent of the World's GDP.

That's JUST the United States! Also, the European Union doesn't really edge out the U.S. by much either.

What do you think the GDP of English speaking individuals is? I'm guessing you'll find that English speaking individuals abroad impact 60% of the World's GDP.

Fair? No. Will it change? Probably. But not quickly enough to matter.


References if you need them:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)

OK, there are a lot of different ways of guestimating all this but this is one set of figures based on Purchasing Power Parity, which attempt to remove the distortions of exchange rates :

http://www.mapsofworld.com/world-top-ten/world-top-ten-gross-domestic-countries-map.html

World Top 10 - Gross Domestic Product Countries
Country In Billion Dollars
United States 10.082
China 6,000
Japan 3,550
India 2,660
Germany 2,184
France 1,540
United Kingdom 1,520
Italy 1,438
Brazil 1,340
Russia 1,270

Don't see Canada featured in this list, but the figures are reflect this report from the Quebec Institute for Statistics:

http://www.stat.gouv.qc.ca/donstat/econm_finnc/conjn_econm/compr_inter/pdf/pib-ang.pdf

Best Regards
Dave Wrixon