opinion What is a "Struggle Session" and why we should avoid them at DNForum

[amplify]

We're likely to see them flock here.

However, you're able to control your own experience on DNForum. Don't let someone else control what you can and cannot see. The keys are with you now to decide whether you want to give them the time of day or not.

 

[MapleDots]

Rob will never get a fair shake at namepros, especially now that he owns DNForum. The conversation is too one sided because you can reference namepros here, yet over there it gets deleted for rule_violation. For this reason alone the topic at namepros can never be fair because it is heavily moderated and any reference to an opposing point of view from here is censored or removed.

Each forum has its merits and I personally prefer the open style @amplify is using here at DN.

I have no financial gain for supporting either but I like to think when expressing my creative freedoms I am more drawn to the place where I am able to express them. Aside from hatred and attacks forum conversation should be allowed to flow freely, hence the name FORUM.

I think if Epik and Crew put all their official responses here members from other platforms will eventually come here if they want to read or discuss Epik or DNForum topics.

I like the fact that Dapper John can discuss his points openly here. Really no more needs to be said because it speaks volumes for the differences in the two platforms.

 

[robmonster]

Thanks @MapleDots - as promised the hand of moderation is light here. I do think we need to make it easier to ignore people whose posts are not deemed as useful. This then becomes a matter of personal choice for making DNForum a more enjoyable experience when it comes to ignoring certain voices.

 

[DapperJohn]

1) NP mods are controlling the epik debate, removing any meaningful push back on motives, threats and attention seeking by the hackers.

2) While NP mods are demanding people change their avatars when a moderator subjectively deems it unprofessional, they allow borderline obscene avatars for new accounts created only to comment in the epik thread.

3) It hasn't helped their stats.

View attachment 5430


4) It hasn't hurt dnforum.

View attachment 5431

Just out of curiosity, why are you even posting over there? Why not just post here and truly support Rob/Epik. Posting shows support. You help keep them alive. Bring all your posting activity over here if you want to see DNF thrive. True support.

 

[DomainsGENERAL.com]

I think Paul Buonopane at NamePros has an incredibly difficult job. He is managing a large forum that has become overrun with propagandists and provocateurs with unknown motivations.

Yes and no. His actions partially made that it became like this. It is what @mr-x and @MapleDots are rightfully describing. To me, he is clearly not foreign to the atmosphere reigning at NP. And maybe he does like it just like that.

Then comes the people staying (or joining), and those leaving (or being kicked out), which reinforces everything.
Yes, hopefully DNForum is an alternative which will appeal to more like-minded people.

 

[Fried]

1. I LOVE namePros. I encourage anybody with gripes to work through their issues with mods, or better yet, quietly leave the forum if you're hell bent on making it a hostile place, so those who enjoy it, can continue to enjoy it.

2. Has DNForum tried to recruit any high profile people for membership? It would be interesting to hear somebody like Tulsi Gabbard speak her thoughts re: #EpikFail

 

[amplify]

Has DNForum tried to recruit any high profile people for membership?

Sure, she would be welcome here — along with anyone from the political far left to far right — if they can put their divisive ideologies behind to engage with domain name investors on a meaningful level that falls in line with our two golden rules.

To say you won't participate on DNForum because someone else that you disagree with on a whole different spectrum is buying/selling or discussing domains on here is the absurdity of divisiveness I'm trying to prevent.

Just stay off if you only come to try and divide. Time is a precious thing, and you'll want every second you can of that at the end of your life to hold on just that much longer. Seriously, why waste those seconds trying to divide a domain name forum? I could make you a crossword puzzle if you want. At least then, I don't feel like you'd be wasting your time as you're engaging your brain, which needs exercised just as much as your body.

 

[DomainsGENERAL.com]

1. I LOVE namePros. I encourage anybody with gripes to work through their issues with mods, or better yet, quietly leave the forum if you're hell bent on making it a hostile place, so those who enjoy it, can continue to enjoy it.

Why does it sound so much as someone having an interest and/or a close relationship with NP? Exactly like DapperJohn who came just before. Maybe it isn't the case but it is what it looks like, to me.

Would you mind explaining why the hell as a new member registering on a forum, you ENCOURAGE people to behave a certain way on another forum for your very first post?

Personally, I tried pretty hard to work through any issue (which don't really exist) with Mods and Paul himself. Several times actually. And again when NP started to follow my account on Twitter. An absolute nightmare. Nothing lead anywhere. Whatever you do, try, explain. It is very sad. But I sure left quietly as my account has been restricted. So, to me, the place is hostile, and I didn't do anything to supposedly make it that way. It starts with their craziness around "rules", which they then apply a certain way.

Funny how this thread with its subject quickly started revolving around NP.

 

[MapleDots]

Why does it sound so much as someone having an interest and/or a close relationship with NP? Exactly like DapperJohn who came just before. Maybe it isn't the case but it is what it looks like, to me.

Would you mind explaining why the hell as a new member registering on a forum, you ENCOURAGE people to behave a certain way on another forum for your very first post?

Personally, I tried pretty hard to work through any issue (which don't really exist) with Mods and Paul himself. Several times actually. And again when NP started to follow my account on Twitter. An absolute nightmare. Nothing lead anywhere. Whatever you do, try, explain. It is very sad. But I sure left quietly as my account has been restricted. So, to me, the place is hostile, and I didn't do anything to supposedly make it that way. It starts with their craziness around "rules", which they then apply a certain way.

Funny how this thread with its subject quickly started revolving around NP.

Very similar situation for me but quite honestly I have grown beyond animosity and wish them well. They run their platform as a business and I don't think any change is coming. So unlike Epik where the forum is only part of a business the namepros forum IS their business.

So upon reflection I decided that trying to get them to change their business motto to align with my views of free speech was probably an ill conceived concept on my part.

With my kids fast approaching their teenage years I ask myself how would I counsel them, how would I teach them to react if namepros and dnforum were two actual people. I would probably ask them to accept each for what they are and there is a lesson in there for me as well.

Do I expect DNForum not to have any post deletions or moderation? No there has to be some order and structure but I think open dialogue is key to not offending members. I know Bob Hawkes and I once worked for days educating a member, I made dozens of posts only to see the topic deleted. I quit namepros for a year and eventually came back when I was drawn into conversations. I mostly stopped creating content (yes opening a topic is creating content) but still took the view it was my place to tell them what to delete or not.

Today I am wiser and happier, I am more accepting of each platform and I run my own tiny (highly specialized) platform on the vision of what I think a community should look like.

So as much as Rob will not get a fair shake at namepros, probably namepros will not get a fair shake here. Sure we have more freedom to post cross links here, and we don't get the ominous rule_violation message here, but really when you think about it there is Amazon and Walmart, you have to decide who gets your main business but it does not mean you cannot shop at the other.

Anyways, its Thanksgiving in Canada tomorrow and I have a lot to be thankful for. Think about all the things you are thankful for and the differences in two platforms will probably not be high on you list. Live and let live, enjoy what each platform has to offer, it's kind of like having two Thanksgiving dinners.

 

[mr-x]

Just out of curiosity, why are you even posting over there? Why not just post here and truly support Rob/Epik. Posting shows support. You help keep them alive. Bring all your posting activity over here if you want to see DNF thrive. True support.

I can criticize Epik's poor security, praise their commitment to free speech, hope for the best outcome for Rob and disagree with his view of Christianity all at the same time.

I can post on DNF, or NP and hope both sites / groups do well. It's called freedom.

** Criticism isn't always negative, just expressing a point of view. I don't have to like or approve of Paul's process or results and can still respect Paul.

 

[accurate]

Rob will never get a fair shake at namepros, especially now that he owns DNForum. The conversation is too one sided because you can reference namepros here, yet over there it gets deleted for rule_violation. For this reason alone the topic at namepros can never be fair because it is heavily moderated and any reference to an opposing point of view from here is censored or removed.

Each forum has its merits and I personally prefer the open style @amplify is using here at DN.

I have no financial gain for supporting either but I like to think when expressing my creative freedoms I am more drawn to the place where I am able to express them. Aside from hatred and attacks forum conversation should be allowed to flow freely, hence the name FORUM.

I think if Epik and Crew put all their official responses here members from other platforms will eventually come here if they want to read or discuss Epik or DNForum topics.

I like the fact that Dapper John can discuss his points openly here. Really no more needs to be said because it speaks volumes for the differences in the two platforms.

Pretty much this.

This thread has turned into chaos.

 

[robmonster]

Very similar situation for me but quite honestly I have grown beyond animosity and wish them well. They run their platform as a business and I don't think any change is coming. So unlike Epik where the forum is only part of a business the namepros forum IS their business.

So upon reflection I decided that trying to get them to change their business motto to align with my views of free speech was probably an ill conceived concept on my part.

With my kids fast approaching their teenage years I ask myself how would I counsel them, how would I teach them to react if namepros and dnforum were two actual people. I would probably ask them to accept each for what they are and there is a lesson in there for me as well.

Do I expect DNForum not to have any post deletions or moderation? No there has to be some order and structure but I think open dialogue is key to not offending members. I know Bob Hawkes and I once worked for days educating a member, I made dozens of posts only to see the topic deleted. I quit namepros for a year and eventually came back when I was drawn into conversations. I mostly stopped creating content (yes opening a topic is creating content) but still took the view it was my place to tell them what to delete or not.

Today I am wiser and happier, I am more accepting of each platform and I run my own tiny (highly specialized) platform on the vision of what I think a community should look like.

So as much as Rob will not get a fair shake at namepros, probably namepros will not get a fair shake here. Sure we have more freedom to post cross links here, and we don't get the ominous rule_violation message here, but really when you think about it there is Amazon and Walmart, you have to decide who gets your main business but it does not mean you cannot shop at the other.

Anyways, its Thanksgiving in Canada tomorrow and I have a lot to be thankful for. Think about all the things you are thankful for and the differences in two platforms will probably not be high on you list. Live and let live, enjoy what each platform has to offer, it's kind of like having two Thanksgiving dinners.

Wise words here from you @MapleDots.

As for the NP/DNF detente, I believe DNF is already leading by example, including in this thread which is a bit of a hot-mess but which serves a purpose. For one thing, DNF allows links to NP. Some trolls will take that to the extreme and then the moderators will have to decide what to do about that.

For now, I wish you a very happy Canadian Thanksgiving.

 

[Fried]

Wise words here from you @MapleDots.

Very wise words!

DNF is already leading by example, including in this thread which is a bit of a hot-mess but which serves a purpose.

The tag is a nice touch.

For one thing, DNF allows links to NP.

But most of namePros is public, no sign in required. This thread used to be public, now it's private. So there is an argument that DNF isn't as publicly open as NP. If this thread went private due to the controversial nature of the thread, then kudos for trying to contain the dumpster fire.

Some trolls will take that to the extreme and then the moderators will have to decide what to do about that.

It looks like the mods here have already been hard at work. I have no idea what this is/was all about, but I woke up to an unsolicited message from a DNF member who appears to have earned him(or)her self a 24-hr time out. Which I have to admit, is an interesting touch. Personally I agree with time outs to protect oneself from further enflaming themselves or the forum, but I imagine some would argue that as censorship.

In efforts of furthering the discussion of censorship, below is the DM i received. Notably it contained an archive link <https://archive.is/bE2Jw> to a previous DNF conversation that is too drama packed for me to make sense of...



..

Anybody have any idea what to make of this hot mess?

 

[amplify]

The

tag is a nice touch.

For a brief period of time, the off-topic "Watercooler" forum has been only for those logged in. Rob instructed me that he would like the entire forum public. However, I made a critical error late last night and overlooked this specific thread with that prefix. I've since changed it to "opinion", thus opening this thread to the public again.

I will take guidance from Rob on whether we will mark some topics as controversial/intended for mature audiences when that time seems to arrive.

But most of namePros is public, no sign in required.

The forum should now be public. If you have any errors accessing any other part of the forum, please get in contact with me privately so that I can check permissions.

Personally I agree with time outs to protect oneself from further enflaming themselves or the forum, but I imagine some would argue that as censorship.

If you were to go to a domain name conference just to cause issues during auctions or speeches, you would be asked to stop and even may be asked to leave, only escalating further from there if you refuse.

There's no room for creating chaos. A 24 hour/72 hour timeout is merely telling someone to "behave". In this specific case, after multiple warnings were issued.

We don't want to have to go to the extreme of kicking someone off the forum, but we also don't want members to believe they control every aspect of any conversation because of "free speech". If you have something off-topic that you want to discuss, create a new thread; it's as simple as that.

In efforts of furthering the discussion of censorship, below is the DM i received. Notably it contained an archive link <https://archive.is/bE2Jw> to a previous DNF conversation that is too drama packed for me to make sense of...

I would be happy to entertain any suggestions for improvement if you want to discuss any of these actions further.

As for now, could we please remain on the original topic?

 

[MapleDots]

For a brief period of time, the off-topic "Watercooler" forum has been only for those logged in. Rob instructed me that he would like the entire forum public. However, I made a critical error late last night and overlooked this specific thread with that prefix. I've since changed it to "opinion", thus opening this thread to the public again.

I agree with having the water cooler open but I also like the controversial tag and it not being open when not logged in.

I explained that a little here

Controversial - I like it

I notice the " Controversial " prefix on a topic and decided to pass along my opinion on this. Some of us get caught up in topics and sometimes the responses can stray to topics away from what the community is about. It is often the call of a moderator to decide what is controversial and what...

dnforum.com

Airing dirty laundry on google is not necessarily the best for our industry and I know namepros moves the topics to reviews which effectively removes them from the top topic lists and kind of hides them. They ARE still indexed on google but personally I think if it does not benefit the domaining industry, why would we want it indexed?

Most of us here have a domaining business or sideline so harming our own industry is in no way beneficial.

So in summary, I like...

1. Water Cooler open to all and indexed.

2. A controversial tag where the TOPIC is not indexed and you must be logged in to view.

I take step number #2 even further and only trusted members on my site are allowed to view those topics. That effectively removes the trolls once we designate the topic as controversial.

PS. I am not calling anyone on DNForum a troll, this is just a general comment and suggestion talking about board suggestions.

 

[Fried]

As for now, could we please remain on the original topic?

How is what I said not related to the original topic?

In OP:

the owner of DNForum, Epik will absolutely encourage open dialog in the hope that more discussion is better. In promoting dialog, the silent majority should never have to live in fear of the apparatchiks. Independent thought should be welcome and encouraged here.

Then come to find DNF is deleting posts just like namePros. Thus, proving nP mods right that hypocrisy is to be expected at #FreeSpeech websites. https://archive.is/bE2Jw

"For anyone looking for something different, there are other websites out there, but those websites will likely disappoint: be unpleasant or full of hypocrisy." -- Bravo Mod Team

---

As for second part of nP mod statement,

"We're nothing if not consistent and fair." --- Bravo Mod Team

nP mods may try to achieve this balance, but the reality is Epik does not have home field advantage there. Due to a pattern of marketing tactics over security practices, the crowd is fired up. Instead of umpires, nP has a community reporting system, leaving the vast amount of reporting (calls) to be fielded (reported) by the community.

If it's mostly #TeamPissedAtEpik(TheMajority) are reporting posts, then it is up to #TeamEpik(TheMinority) to report posts that are against nP rules so those rule breakers can be dealt with appropriately. And thus a more fair playing field will arise. Or just deflect away and call it a struggle session if deflection is legally better than the truth.

---

I'm all for holding Epik accountable, and understanding the full scope of this breach so I know where to protect myself, and what to look out for, but I've had enough with the conspiracy theories, and personal attacks.

It's unfortunate that the community and nP mods have allowed Hysteric Derek to carry on the way he has. It's an error on the community for underreporting his antagonistic posts, and an error for on nP mods for not seeing the continual pattern of antagonistic harassment towards Rob.

Hysteric Derek Summary:

Derek's first nP post was on April 20th, 2019. He came at @robmonster with claims

"How can you make any claims of bitmitigate being able to do anything or guarantee anything related to bitmitigate when you are simply selling and hyping a re-skinned version of BuyVM's DDoS service."

"the graph image you use to market Bitmitigate DDoS service on your bitmitigate website is found on BuyVM's site from over 5 years ago (see way back archive). You were so lazy you didn't even rename it on your own site."

Derek then started a new dedicated thread: https://www.namepros.com/threads/is-epik-coms-bitmitigate-for-real.1133231/#post-7203546

@robmonster, who has been referred to as the most reachable domain registrar CEO in the industry, responded to Hysteric Derek within a few hours. Notably, Rob said:

"Derek Peterson is an anti-Gab shill. He runs a competing site called OneWay.com. He is not a domain investor and apparently created an account at NP just to post here. Derek wanted Epik to drop Gab.com."

Since finding Rob on nP, Derek has made nearly 250 namePros posts. Nearly all are about Rob/Epik and 180 +/- of them were made in the tread referred to in OP as the struggle session. So while Derek may only be a paying member of nP because of his vendetta against rob/epik, as apparently originally Rob/Derek met on Gab?, it's quite unfortunate to see gab related drama spill over onto namePros. Historically this drama led to several high level nP members no longer feel comfortable on the forum, and fast forward to present time, Derek's display of misogynistic, at times racist undertones, conspiratorial and hostile commenting on namePros is not a good representation of what it means to be a namePros member. I suspect if more nP members stuck up for @robmonster by reporting Dereks (or others_ disrespectful posts (noting anything antagonistic) than mods will be forced to act not only on the specific posts, but eventually on the pattern. IMO, proper reporting does the entire community a favor. And gives the member a chance to shape up or shut up.

So umm... while I'm still on #TeamPissedAtEpik, I'm also on #TeamThatsNotRight. Attack Epik, their policies, procedures, their marketing, cultural insensitivity, all that is fair game, but it is getting viciously personal, and that shit needs to stop. It may not be as easy to contain outside of the domaining world, but inside the domaining echo chamber, we can still have issues with somebody, but still stand up for them when they are being mistreated.

Lastly, I acknowledge my use of Hysteric Derek may be over the top Trumpy, but given Hysteric Dereks propensity to bullying, it seems characteristically appropriate to disregard his full name, and knight him with a proper troll title.

ps. If you have Hulu, tune into hour mark 1:16 of Dealin' with Idiots. The ending scene is reminiscent to Rob hugging his critics

 

[robmonster]

ps. If you have Hulu, tune into hour mark 1:16 of Dealin' with Idiots. The ending scene is reminiscent to Rob hugging his critics

Love conquers all.

Unity in truth.

Hate is not a strategy.

More hugs.

I have not always thought this way, over the years as I have seen the overt manifestation of "divide and rule" play out, I am reminded that these are important truths.

Related post: https://dnforum.com/threads/unity-in-truth.600023/

If possible, focus on what unites us, rather than what tears us apart. @GeorgeK nailed it here:

legal - Duplicitous ICANN Working Group Jeopardizes Domain Owners’ Rights

A duplicitous ICANN Working Group has issued a report that is open for public comments that would have severe negative consequences for domain name owners. In particular, it would tilt the playing field in a domain name dispute (i.e. a UDRP or the URS) involving IGOs (intergovernmental...

www.namepros.com

Sooner or later, the world will have to choose between "Great Reset" or "Great Awakening". The clock is ticking.

 

[MapleDots]

If possible, focus on what unites us, rather than what tears us apart. @GeorgeK nailed it here:

If you want to see how this applies to ccTLD's you can read it here:

Duplicitous ICANN Working Group Jeopardizes Domain Owners’ Rights | CIRA & Legal | DN.ca

Duplicitous ICANN Working Group Jeopardizes Domain Owners’ Rights | CIRA & Legal | DN.ca | Domain Names Canada, Buy, Sell, Talk Domains. DN.ca your source for .ca domain name information in Canada.

dn.ca

Notice the owner of DNForum.com freely linking to namepros - it shows an openness from Rob that is ahead of the curve.

@Fried makes some valid points as well and he makes his views known quite openly. Some in favor and some against, that is the base of a good forum. If we all agreed we would have nothing to talk about. It is our differences that keep the conversations going and we can do so in a way that critiques the topic and not necessarily the person. So although I do not agree with all of Fried's comments I do appreciate he took the time to make them.

I am hoping the day will come when this type of cross linking is allowed everywhere. Bravo Bravo (was that a hint?)

I won't drop names but there is also a forum from another country that had an exchange with DNForum and only those two forums were allowed to crosslink. Hopefully they too will see the advantage of open cross linking and will end the rule on their side as well.

 

[robmonster]

If you want to see how this applies to ccTLD's you can read it here:

Duplicitous ICANN Working Group Jeopardizes Domain Owners’ Rights | CIRA & Legal | DN.ca

Duplicitous ICANN Working Group Jeopardizes Domain Owners’ Rights | CIRA & Legal | DN.ca | Domain Names Canada, Buy, Sell, Talk Domains. DN.ca your source for .ca domain name information in Canada.

dn.ca

Notice the owner of DNForum.com freely linking to namepros - it shows an openness from Rob that is ahead of the curve.

@Fried makes some valid points as well and he makes his views known quite openly. Some in favor and some against, that is the base of a good forum. If we all agreed we would have nothing to talk about. It is our differences that keep the conversations going and we can do so in a way that critiques the topic and not necessarily the person. So although I do not agree with all of Fried's comments I do appreciate he took the time to make them.

I am hoping the day will come when this type of cross linking is allowed everywhere. Bravo Bravo (was that a hint?)

I won't drop names but there is also a forum from another country that had an exchange with DNForum and only those two forums were allowed to crosslink. Hopefully they too will see the advantage of open cross linking and will end the rule on their side as well.

Co-create abundance. That includes connecting dots from sites. Of course use sound judgement when discerning what to share or embed, but walled gardens are for losers.

 

[Fried]

Derek's display of misogynistic, at times racist undertones, conspiratorial and hostile commenting on namePros is not a good representation of what it means to be a namePros member.

I personally have reported Derek several times. Others have as well... so why is it that Derek is still without restriction?

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1448459536902332418

These gab types that Rob attracted to namePros all seem to bring their alt-right agenda to namePros, and with it usually comes hurtful language.

Will namePros ever take a stance on the alt-right behavior that has caused many highly contributing nP members to no longer feel comfortable on the forum?

---

And for the folks who say Alexa metrics are BS, while that may be an opinion, Alexa also contains metrics (take them as a grain of salt unlike epiks MD5) such as Audience Overlap. Below is the Audience Overlap of namePros. 3 domain news sites, 1 domain appraisal site, and one registrar -- epik.